Question for Jack Zucker

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by Rock Fella, Oct 25, 2004.

  1. Rock Fella

    Rock Fella Member

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    Jack, ive read about your sheets of sound book, i see ed here endorses it , im not a fan of instruction videos for gtr, i have seen many and learnt bugger all from none of them.

    one vid id love is danny gattons, would i get anything from it ? i dont know.

    my playing style is hard rock based, my absolute idols are gary moore and john sykes, my rig is a R9 into a Cornford Hellcat head, gives you an idea of what kinda tones and vibes i try to create.

    if a product or book exists that can help my playing in a tangible way , that is, i can actually hear the benefits, by all means, ill give it a go.

    if i ask you straight, with the product you are selling, how can i reallistically measure any benefits ive reaped from it. ?

    ive saw yngwie video , i mean how could anyone get anything from watching a guy sit talking about himself and then blazing thru licks and thats it, so i hope you can see how i just dont go for products like that which i deem a complete waste of time for a player.

    ive listen to ouchagain by ed, his licks are phenominal in that cut, is there anything you hear in that which you can say, the dude used this or that concept from SOS ?

    id really like to know jack and i hope you give me your input here.

    jimmy
     
  2. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    Videos...
    I never found any use for them..none, zilch, nada. other than the guy talking about concepts. Which in Yngwie's case really is a non-evet.
    But then again that video shoot took like 4 days to get enough material on tape. And it was inetrspersed with live footage to flesh it out enough.
    Yngwie also was playing aline and commenting on...:that was harnonic minor". And the producer Don Mock who's a phenomenal palnk spanker had to correct him and Yngwie got his undies in a bunch over it.
    But I digress. When it comes to video the only good thing I found to do with them is transfer it to audio only and trnascribe the stuff myself.

    the reason I do endorse Jack's book is two-fold.
    One, and this is the main reason. It sent me back in the woodshed and got me fired up about practicing.

    The other is I finally got a handle on how to get pentatonics up to speed without just running them over the bar line aimlessly.

    But to my defense I do have to say that the book alone is only printed paper. You'll only get as much out of it as you put in.

    As for Ouchagain..mostly what it has to do with the book is me being able to do certain right hand stuff at quick tempos in the pocket that in the past woulda been just a run together egato line.

    For example here's a thing that note choice wise has nothing to do with the book, but I couldn't have played it prior to using the book because my right hand would have not been able to do this stuff in sync with my left hand...
    http://www.eddegenaro.com/audio/clip14.mp3
     
  3. Rock Fella

    Rock Fella Member

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    glad you got the mail ed and thanks for replying.

    im very much into right hand technique , my picking is far more developed than my legato technique, the speed thing is not as important to me as top notch phrasing and note selection.

    i could wail away to my hearts content, but if im playing poorly selected notes or phrasing that doesnt work, then its worth squat all.

    for example, i realise that angus wails away in whole lotta rose within his familiar box shapes in A minor pentatonic, sure i could do that, but where is the creativity and my tonal signature ?

    i want the know how to create new and exciting ideas ,angus kills doing his thing, i want to move forward doing my thing.

    can you see what im driving at ? to be able to dip inside and outside, sweep thru lines with interesting flavours and colourful notes and improve significantly on my phrasing.

    can SOS help in these areas ed ?
     
  4. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    Hmmm...I think we're talking about different things.
    I have yet to find somebody with a right hand that's more developed than their left unless they played Funk rhythms the last ten years.
    Phrasing is whole different kettle of fish, and SOS doesn't do muh in that respect. But it will give you material to do stuff with your right hand at will that you couldn't prior.

    From your desription I'd say it's time to learn some Landau stuff...
     
  5. lhallam

    lhallam Member

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    If I may.

    SOS is ca. 300 pages of exercises with some explanations as to where they can be used. It also has some tuneful examples/solos and some theory.

    So there is more to get out of it than just technique.

    For example, it's useful for coming up with some new ideas. I took an exercise and played just the first bar and then started riffing off of that idea.

    Another thing it does big time, is have you approach the fingerboard differently. I find some of these approaches creep in when I'm jamming.

    As Ed says, you get out of it what you put into it. I'm pretty confident that there is something in the book you will find valuable.
     
  6. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    (My opinion only!) Sorry to jump in here, but you sound like you hit the exact same point I did years ago. You are also into the same players I was. (Uli, G.moore,Schenker,Angus, Blackmore,Malmsteen etc.) You need to get yourself a great teacher, and learn to play some standard tunes, and how to improvise on them. Misty, Georgia, Willow weep for me, etc. You need to pick out some solos and lines by guys like Robben Ford, George Benson, Wes Montgomery, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis etc. This is going to be some HARD work. It will mean learning to play in a very different way than you do now. You will learn to hear music differently, and play it differently as well. Once you have a good foundation, and can play your way through musical chord changes, and not just tonal centers, you will slowly start to develope a style, and more importantly, you will be able to pick and choose WHAT you want to play, and when you want to play it. SOS will be a great addition to this, and a great reference point to turn to in ADDITION to your lessons, and regular studies. No matter how much you may HATE standard tunes, I believe you MUST learn to play them to ever be a truly great player. If you have ever listened to BB kings instructional video, you will see how much more that guy can play than what he usually does. He can hear changes, and make them at will. Once you can hear that, many players you think are so great now, will seem VERY average. I guarantee it. SRV as great as he is, will make you cringe sometimes on songs like "Riviera paradice". Of course this is mo, but it worked for me (again imo), but one thing it did for sure, is changed the way I hear music forever. For that I am eternally greatful to Richie Hart. :)
     
  7. Unburst

    Unburst Member

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    No question it will help, but if you think it will be put on a plate for you, it won't.

    Get the book, it's great, and will last you a lifetime.
    Start with the pentatonics section (it goes way beyond Angus blues boxes) and take it from there.

    You seem pretty set in your style and tastes , if you don't look beyond that rather narrow genre and approach, how do you expect to develop your own tonal signature?

    SOS will give you a wealth of material to work with, technical, melodic and harmonic.
    As far as I know there are no chapters on playing like John Sykes/Gary Moore.
     
  8. Mark C

    Mark C Member

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    Rock Fella, sounds to me like you want to play what you hear in your head, not patterns. Start transcribing - STOP using tablabture and figure out by ear the licks you want to play. Eventually, you start to hear things in your head and visualize them on the fretboard. Singing the notes you play helps a lot too. I'm still working on this. Over blues and simple rock tunes, I generally hear what I want to play before I play it (somedays are better than others) For more advanced stuff, I need a lot of work. The SOS book is great, but it is more about learning to build technique and opening your fingers up to new patterns. I do agree with some other guys here - you might want to get some inspiration from other music than early 80's metal. The players you like are fantastic, but they have many influences themselves which is why they are so great.
     
  9. JimmyD

    JimmyD Member

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    SRV can really channel the blues without question. The Riviera Paradise take was a little outside of his comfort factor as documented by the clams, but hey I play clams every weekend.

    Get the SOS book though, if nothing else it will help you look at the fretboard differently. If you don't use it now you will pick it up later again and again.

    Jim
     
  10. jackaroo

    jackaroo Member

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    "SRV as great as he is, will make you cringe sometimes on songs like "Riviera paradice".

    "Clams"

    Where exactly is he making me cringe? Seriously

    JD
     
  11. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Jack,
    Its where he plays over the Fmaj7 to G7 if I remember the chords right. You cant miss it.
     
  12. jackaroo

    jackaroo Member

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    I don't know where... but it didn't seem to phase him, the band, or the engineer/producer. Anything really nasty, they'd have punched in and taken care of.

    I like that song a lot. The quiet sections with all the slurry dynamic stuff is really pretty dope. I wish I could play like that.

    It's pretty long tune and it repeats the form many times, at what min:sec is there a good example of what you're talking about. I'm not saying it's not there mind you, I'm just saying I'm yet to hear a clunker on that tune.

    BTW is it just once, or does he not know how to play over the changes every time?

    Peace,

    JD
     
  13. Rock Fella

    Rock Fella Member

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    erm....................i missed it then and i havent a clue what yer talking about . if i could improv off the cuff like he did on that , i could die a happy man.
     
  14. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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    The Ebmaj7 (Cm7) to F7 where he plays a bunch of E Blues licks sounds awful. SRV's one of my heros but he shoulda kept that one in the can or let Reese solo over it instead...
     
  15. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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    Regarding helping your playing in a tangible way...

    The premise of SOS is to expand your mind, your imagination and your horizons. Out of 1000 books sold, I have had 2 folks that emailed me that they were dissatisfied. In both cases, they said that they were playing in bands where they just didn't think that the material would help them. One guy played in a blues band, the other guy in a pop band.

    The material in the book is not about helping you directly in a specific band application. It's all about helping you grow. If you are interested in growth, than the book will sow your imagination and fuel your growth.

    If you're looking for a bunch of hot and wicked licks to impress your friends with, there are plenty of those in there as well but that would be missing the main point of the book which is to get you to look at the instrument differently.

    Jaz
     
  16. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    Huh, it's been a long time but I remeber that progression as ending on Ebmaj7-F#7-B7#9-B7b9-Em.
     
  17. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    You guys are killing me...
    Why do I remeber the progression as
    Gmaj7-A7
    Gmaj7-A7
    Fmaj7-G7
    Fmaj7-G7
    Ebmaj7-F#7
    B7-Em7
     
  18. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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    You're partially right. Each of the Maj7 voicings in that chord progression was actually a min9 chord in first inversion. The next to last line goes like this:

    Ebmaj7 F7 F#13 B7b9

    With the last two chords played as 8th notes
     
  19. JimmyD

    JimmyD Member

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    Hi guys, I popped it in the CD player to refresh myself. What I hear starts about 1:53 through 2:00. Stevie is laying on a B natural over Ebmaj7 to F#7. Lotta tension there!

    The next time through the progression also on the Ebmaj7 at around 2:46 he starts his phrase on E.

    I'm also surprised it wasn't corrected via a punch in.

    Jim
     
  20. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    So it is Eb-F# as I thought...
     

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