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Question regarding speaker wattage compared to amp wattage - blown speaker

Metatron_X

Member
Messages
280
I have a 2x12 cab rated at 250watts @ 16ohms with 1, 12", 150W speaker and 1, 12", 100W speaker. How likely is it that the 100W speaker voice coil would spontaneously melt while playing a 100W, EL34, amplifier with the master volume set no higher than 5 (more like 3)? What if OD was on, through the clean channel, instead of the amps native distortion? What if my guitar were downtuned to drop C?

I ask because this recently happened... I purchased a "boutique" speaker from a fairly reputable buyer and never played that speaker over 3-4 MV for a year. This week I played around 4-5 MV and the voice coil melted while dooming. I'm dumfounded because I've never had this happen before. I have a Jensen C12K that is in there now as a replacement, that I've had for over 7 years and played through under MORE gigorous circumstances, using the same gear, amp, guitar downtuning, impedance, etc and it still lives. This botique speaker I purchased croaked under light use and it's somehow (possibly) a result of my actions - it just sounds REALLY strange and unlikely to me.
 

teemuk

Member
Messages
3,232
Boutique is not a synonym for "reliable" or "quality". Boutique simply means "shop".

Secondly, speaker power ratings are derived much differently than amplifier power ratings. The test uses noise signal with specific crest factor and stresses the speaker for a specific amount of time. The derived power dissipation merely reveals effects of temperature - not effects of cone excursion, which are totally ignored in the rating.

As is, the two ratings are hardly directly comparable with each other, and given the wide variety to perform both output power tests and speaker power dissipation tests their results can actually be quite all over the place. With speaker's the rating changes simply by changing crest factor of the test signal, and crest factors of, say, sine wave, and overdriven sine wave, are also totally different so...

...It basically takes a rocket scientist to know how much power you are actually feeding to the loudspeaker, and another experimental test to reveal how much the speaker can take it in your applications and ways of using the amp/speaker (because power rating doesn't tell all and even ignores an important half).

So no, there's really nothing "strange" in blowing speakers. You just weren't vigilant enough to hear that they were dying. Which is pretty much the only reliable method to identify dangerous speaker overdrive. Those ratings... they are just a crude guideline to prevent the most stupid mismatches.

How likely is it that the 100W speaker voice coil would spontaneously melt while playing a 100W, EL34, amplifier with the master volume set no higher than 5 (more like 3)?
Well, you probably need to figure it out experimentally. The rating reveals that the speaker can take 100 watts of thermal punishment. It doesn't reveal for how long or at which crest factor, which makes the rating rather "stub" and more or less useless to us in practical comparisons, such as this one. The amp produces 100 watts. Is it peak? Is it average? Is it continuous? How much power is your actual signal producing because THAT is actually The only number we care about.... Is crest factor of THAT signal comparable to crest factor of the signal the manufacturer used in testing the speaker? How close?

An amp rated to produce 100 watts continuous average can output at least twice as much of peak power. How much is your speaker really receiving? ...And then, if you can actually derive all that, we still are left with the issue that speaker power ratings do not even cover their excursion limits, and overexcursion is probably just as usual damage mechanism to a speaker than those caused by thermal effects.
 
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Jonny G

Member
Messages
1,513
Does seem rather odd to be honest. Assuming you were matching your amp and cab impedances and that the cab is wired properly, you actually have a 200Watt cab (2x the lowest speaker rating, as power is distributed evenly - as long as each individual speaker has same impedance) = 2x your amp rating. That's normally regarded as a very "safe" ratio - others will say you are actually OK with a 1.5x, but there is a risk if you dime it and include boosts and tone controls up high, you'll be getting out quite a bit more than 100Watts.

If you had OD pushing your amp (i.e. at volume > unity), then yes, the output would have been higher than ('normal" ), though if your MV was only at 3-5, it doent seem a likely cause either.

Drop C is something I suspect that should not really affect you, though can't say I ever go there myself. Admittedly, most speakers (well , Celestions at least) have a frequency range starting at 75Hz, and drop C admittedly is lower than that (68Hz i think). I occasionally use drop D (73Hz) tuning and never had any trouble, but maybe others can chime in.

Sounds like a bum speaker IMO
 

Metatron_X

Member
Messages
280
Does seem rather odd to be honest. Assuming you were matching your amp and cab impedances and that the cab is wired properly, you actually have a 200Watt cab (2x the lowest speaker rating, as power is distributed evenly - as long as each individual speaker has same impedance) = 2x your amp rating. That's normally regarded as a very "safe" ratio - others will say you are actually OK with a 1.5x, but there is a risk if you dime it and include boosts and tone controls up high, you'll be getting out quite a bit more than 100Watts.

If you had OD pushing your amp (i.e. at volume > unity), then yes, the output would have been higher than ('normal" ), though if your MV was only at 3-5, it doent seem a likely cause either.

Drop C is something I suspect that should not really affect you, though can't say I ever go there myself. Admittedly, most speakers (well , Celestions at least) have a frequency range starting at 75Hz, and drop C admittedly is lower than that (68Hz i think). I occasionally use drop D (73Hz) tuning and never had any trouble, but maybe others can chime in.

Sounds like a bum speaker IMO

The cab is rated at 250 watts with both speakers (1x150w - swamp thang + 1x100w "boutique") and they were both 8 ohm speakers wired in series for a 16ohm cab, amplifier was set to 16ohm. I mostly played the amp at bedroom levels for the past year because I wasn't in a band but I recently tried out for a band and the speaker melted during the trial lol. I normally play the amps native distortion but I dared to try my Kingsley Jester, something I don't normally do, instead of using the native distortion - I forgot about this fact when I spoke with him over the phone, I don't normally use it, even though I have plenty of times with other speakers, I tried something different this time, for this scenario.

So basically, it sounds as though I might have fried my speaker with OD while MV was on 3-4 according to Teemuk? That's a pretty fragile speaker... I actually told the speaker maker, specifically, what I wanted the speaker for 2x12, drop tunings, doom metal, 120w amplifier, etc. He recommended this speaker and it blew with light use. He originally tried to talk me into a 75W version but I wanted something that I would have a hard time blowing in a 2x12, so I asked for the 100W instead. I kind of feel deceived and ripped off as he says it's "out of warranty". I'll send it back to him, he says he "might" replace it if he finds the voice coil to be faulty but I don't feel very confident as he already has my money and I have to trust him (haha). Still sounds not quite right to me... I've since tried to replicate the voice coil melting with the Jensen C12K, because I'm not too fond of the speaker but I can't seem to kill it the same way this other speaker died. Also, I have a 4x12 with 2xV30 + 2xG12H30, I've jacked this amp every way since sunday - same way, different ways, etc - and never blown a speaker in it, not even with a 7 string guitar, bass control on 10, MV on 7 and OD/Boost on, this just all seems fishy.

Thanks for the replies, I have a feeling I lost my money... I won't make the same mistake twice.
 
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Braciola

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
6,235
The cab is rated at 250 watts with both speakers (1x150w - swamp thang + 1x100w "boutique")
Incorrect.
That is a 200 watt cab as Jonny G said.
You take the lowest rated speaker, than multiply it by the number of speakers in that cab.
Extreme example:
A 4X12 cab loaded with (3) EVM12L's (a 200W speaker) & one Celestion Greenback (a 25 watt speaker) the total cab wattage is 100 watts, not 625 watts.
 

Metatron_X

Member
Messages
280
Incorrect.
That is a 200 watt cab as Jonny G said.
You take the lowest rated speaker, than multiply it by the number of speakers in that cab.
Extreme example:
A 4X12 cab loaded with (3) EVM12L's (a 200W speaker) & one Celestion Greenback (a 25 watt speaker) the total cab wattage is 100 watts, not 625 watts.
Ok, thanks for the correction, I didn't know that.
 

Jonny G

Member
Messages
1,513
FYI Metatron, your 4x12 cab is a de facto 120Watt cab (the GH30s are 30 Watt speakers, sooo.....) if you've been diming your 100Watt through that plus boost etc and not blown anything, you've been rather lucky (so far :D)

Back to your issue, it does sound to me like a duff speaker. Also, If your "boutique cab guy" rated the cab at 250W when it patently is not, he doesnt sound like someone i would want to be buying gear from :dunno

Good luck, anyway
 

Metatron_X

Member
Messages
280
FYI Metatron, your 4x12 cab is a de facto 120Watt cab (the GH30s are 30 Watt speakers, sooo.....) if you've been diming your 100Watt through that plus boost etc and not blown anything, you've been rather lucky (so far :D)

Back to your issue, it does sound to me like a duff speaker. Also, If your "boutique cab guy" rated the cab at 250W when it patently is not, he doesnt sound like someone i would want to be buying gear from :dunno

Good luck, anyway

I've never dimed the amp with that cab, that isn't what I said, I've had it as high as 7 on the MV with the same OD, on the same clean channel, that supposedly killed my other speaker. Also, this isn't a "cab guy" who sold me a cab, I said it was rated at 250W because I made the improper assumption that the combined speaker wattage was the cab rating, my mistake - Braciola corrected me.

No, I was sold a speaker by a speaker guy and I'm requesting a second opinion because if I spend $ to send him the speaker frame to inspect then he has the power to hold that speaker frame hostage until I either choose to pay to recone the speaker or pay to have it returned to me so that someone else can recone that speaker. No matter how I look at it I'll be paying more than what the speaker is worth if I can't play it above bedroom levels.
 

Jonny G

Member
Messages
1,513
OK - gotcha. Any which way it does not sound like a speaker should have blown in the circumstances described and this speaker guy ought to know that. Maybe cut your losses and get a better know/ reliable replacement?
 

J M Fahey

Member
Messages
2,693
Not to be a wise guy, but there's a couple descriptions which are not accurate and can bite you in the *ss, let's go through them.
100W speaker voice coil would spontaneously melt
Not "spontaneously", it's getting considerable power.
with the master volume set no higher than 5 (more like 3)? What if OD was on, through the clean channel, instead of the amps native distortion?
The pot "number" is absolutely NOT an accurate power indication, by any means.
Old Plexis were distorting (i.e. clipping the power tubes and providing MORE than the official power rating) on ***2*** in the bright channel because of the 10x oversized 4700pF bright cap (proper value would be 470pF)
You don't mention your amp and I don't know its Master volume curve (Log/Lin?) but it might well be clipping the power tubes even if set to 3 or 5 , go figure.
What if my guitar were downtuned to drop C?
Well, that's interesting.
Is your cabinet closed or has an open back?
That includes "half open", "untuned" and those with say, a large opening in the back, at least speaker sized and often oval.
If so, and given your drop tuning, plus my suspicion that if you favour such tuning you must also prefer a bass heavy EQ, coupling both may (will) give you lots of speaker overexcursion (it was already suggested above) and that may mechanically smash the voice coil against the backplate.
It may even be stone cold, it's not a thermal problem but a mechanical one.
If the speaker was softened to provide an old, smooth, aged speaker feel it is even more likely.
A reinforced speaker such as your Eminence or the modern Jensen might have harder spiders and survive excessive low frequencies better.
If you look at speaker datasheets you'll often find 2 parameters listed:
* X max , usually 1 or 2 mm , some vintage type ones even spec 0 mm, is how much the speaker cone can move forward or backward without starting to distort .
That's a "round" , very acceptable distortion, so common that in fact we don't even notice it, not harsh as amp clipping, no big deal.
* X damage Well, the name says it all, doesn't it? :(
Usually some 10mm , is how much the voice coil can move without hitting the back plate.
A disastrous event, there's no second or third strike, the firstb is deadly enough .
Not common at all , but your combination of factors might point to that.

Mind you, you can destroy a 250W speaker with 30 or 40W, sometimes even less, if the cabinet , at low frequencies, is the same as leaving the speaker alone on the table.

Back to your problem, the speaker maker needs to inspect it.
Abuse (blown/smashed coils) is not covered by anybody, sorry.
Now if he finds a manufacturing problem and you are within warranty , he'll certainly repair it
 

Metatron_X

Member
Messages
280
OK - gotcha. Any which way it does not sound like a speaker should have blown in the circumstances described and this speaker guy ought to know that. Maybe cut your losses and get a better know/ reliable replacement?
I think that's the only real option here, do you have any suggestions for a great sounding speaker that will be really hard to blow in a 2x12
Not to be a wise guy, but there's a couple descriptions which are not accurate and can bite you in the *ss, let's go through them.

Not "spontaneously", it's getting considerable power.

The pot "number" is absolutely NOT an accurate power indication, by any means.
Old Plexis were distorting (i.e. clipping the power tubes and providing MORE than the official power rating) on ***2*** in the bright channel because of the 10x oversized 4700pF bright cap (proper value would be 470pF)
You don't mention your amp and I don't know its Master volume curve (Log/Lin?) but it might well be clipping the power tubes even if set to 3 or 5 , go figure.

Well, that's interesting.
Is your cabinet closed or has an open back?
That includes "half open", "untuned" and those with say, a large opening in the back, at least speaker sized and often oval.
If so, and given your drop tuning, plus my suspicion that if you favour such tuning you must also prefer a bass heavy EQ, coupling both may (will) give you lots of speaker overexcursion (it was already suggested above) and that may mechanically smash the voice coil against the backplate.
It may even be stone cold, it's not a thermal problem but a mechanical one.
If the speaker was softened to provide an old, smooth, aged speaker feel it is even more likely.
A reinforced speaker such as your Eminence or the modern Jensen might have harder spiders and survive excessive low frequencies better.
If you look at speaker datasheets you'll often find 2 parameters listed:
* X max , usually 1 or 2 mm , some vintage type ones even spec 0 mm, is how much the speaker cone can move forward or backward without starting to distort .
That's a "round" , very acceptable distortion, so common that in fact we don't even notice it, not harsh as amp clipping, no big deal.
* X damage Well, the name says it all, doesn't it? :(
Usually some 10mm , is how much the voice coil can move without hitting the back plate.
A disastrous event, there's no second or third strike, the firstb is deadly enough .
Not common at all , but your combination of factors might point to that.

Mind you, you can destroy a 250W speaker with 30 or 40W, sometimes even less, if the cabinet , at low frequencies, is the same as leaving the speaker alone on the table.

Back to your problem, the speaker maker needs to inspect it.
Abuse (blown/smashed coils) is not covered by anybody, sorry.
Now if he finds a manufacturing problem and you are within warranty , he'll certainly repair it

Thanks for the info, that helps to explain a lot. I did favor a bass heavy EQ in this instance because I was auditioning for a doom band. My cab is a closed back, Avatar OS 2x12 (Bogner style), my amp is a Brunetti 059 - I've been told that it's a Plexi Super-Lead clone with separate channels etc, I had mine factory modded with a resonance control but the resonance happened to be all the way down because I had the bass all the way up and the Swamp Thang is a bass cone (so I've been told) so it does a good job of reproducing those frequencies.

To be honest I'm not overly surprised it happened, it's not the first time I've blown a speaker but it came unexpectedly due to the fact that I explicitly requested a speaker to handle this situation and was sold this speaker under the premise that it would not fail so easily given that the speaker builder knew all of the specs and requirements - I made certain he had all of this information prior to the purchase (Avatar OS 2x12, Closed back, paired with an Eminence Swamp Thang + Drop tunings, Doom metal + Brunetti 059, EL34, 100W, and I wanted it to be mostly fail-proof under this scenario). This speaker builder has a pretty good reputation for making Celestion clones and the celestions in my 4x12 have held up well to this punishment. Also, the guy who I was auditioning with happens to use a Soldono modded plexi with 4 celestion V30's, fuzz petals, boosts and regularly played Drop A tunings on stage as a touring sludge doom musician through this rig... (Actually, I was wrong in my above post, I was in drop A as well, I normally tune that guitar to C but I tuned down for this audition) I guess I'm not sure why this, supposedly, well made and well respected celestion clone wasn't capable of holding up to the same rigors as actual celestions under these conditions. This also doesn't take into account the many metal bands who play 7 string guitars (Also A tuning), through celestions and eminence, using KT88, 6550's, Matamp, Grren, Orange, Sunn, Laney. Marshall, etc, without regularly blowing through speakers like toilet paper. There are enough modern players who play under these conditions that we would have seen a trend by now if certain speakers don't work for this application and that just isn't the case. If a cab filled with 4x 60 watt speakers is only rated for 60W (the lowest rated speaker) then how can someone with a plexi, dimed bass control, big bottle tubes and Drop A tuning, OD, fuzz, etc, crank their guitar through a cab rated this low and Not blow it?

As far as sending it back to him... why would I do that when: 1.My request was improperly translated and the wrong speaker was recommended for this application to begin with - Seriously, why would I even use this speaker at this point? 2. He not only has my money from the original purchase but if I also send him the frame then he has every incentive to tell me it's my fault so that A. He can charge me to recone the speaker (Which is obviously unfit for this purpose) B. I would have to pay and wait to have the frame returned to me, which means he runs a good chance of me saying "keep the frame and so long". At that point I will have spent $160 on the original speaker + shipping + shipping for the blown speaker for him to inspect + recone fee + shipping to have the speaker returned for a total of $300 - $350 for a single speaker that didn't actually perforn under the conditions that I specified... not very practical or smart.

If this lesson taught me anything it's that "experts" don't always have all of the answers but they will surely lead you to believe they do when it comes to taking your money and they are in the cat-bird seat. So, I'm supposed to "trust" someone who mislead me to begin with? It doesn't work that way in my world; if you mislead me once, I'm not going to trust you a second time.
 
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michael.e

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
20,516
I blew a 100 watt Fane alnico with a '72 JMP 50 and a dirt pedal. Amp was up about half way. It happens.
 

Hulakatt

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
14,155
If a cab filled with 4x 60 watt speakers is only rated for 60W (the lowest rated speaker) then how can someone with a plexi, dimed bass control, big bottle tubes and Drop A tuning, OD, fuzz, etc, crank their guitar through a cab rated this low and Not blow it?
Again, not quite correct on the wattage handling issue. 4 60 watt speakers would yield a 240 watt handling capability. It would be the number of speakers (4) times the wattage of the lowest rated speaker (60 watts) so 4x60=240. If you change only one of those speakers to a 25 watt greenback than it's number of speakers (4) times the wattage of the lowest rated speaker (25 watts) and the cab would handle 100 watts.
 

Metatron_X

Member
Messages
280
Again, not quite correct on the wattage handling issue. 4 60 watt speakers would yield a 240 watt handling capability. It would be the number of speakers (4) times the wattage of the lowest rated speaker (60 watts) so 4x60=240. If you change only one of those speakers to a 25 watt greenback than it's number of speakers (4) times the wattage of the lowest rated speaker (25 watts) and the cab would handle 100 watts.
I stand corrected.
So, if I have 2 Eminence Delta Pro 12A's speakers in a 2x12 then the rating for that cab is 800watts but with 1 Swamp Thang (@150w) + 1 Delta Pro 12A (@400w), in a 2x12 and I'm still looking at a 300w cab? Is 300w enough power handling to prevent voice coil meltdown or am I still in peril using OD and a 100w amp?
 
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Metatron_X

Member
Messages
280
You wont blow those Delta Pros. If you do something else is wrong. I also think that for the most part guitar amps and speakers / tubes etc... are designed to be used with a guitar tuned to 440hz. Every one I am aware of from SRV on who detunes even a half step has speaker problems. I roasted some PA drivers in my old guitar rig when playing lots of dropped D etc... tunes in the 90s.You may want to look into purchasing speakers that are actually made for detuned music. Surely someone makes such a Korn/ Death Metal speaker. I know there is some money in that!
If you look into what makes up most doom rigs you'll find that v30's are very commonly used with no hiccups and sometimes even greenbacks... I have yet to run into someone playing downtuned metal who has frequent speaker problems - if any at all, it's just not as common as some people would like us to believe.
 

DaveKS

Member
Messages
16,704
I stand corrected.
So, if I have 2 Eminence Delta Pro 12A's speakers in a 2x12 then the rating for that cab is 800watts but with 1 Swamp Thang (@150w) + 1 Delta Pro 12A (@400w), in a 2x12 and I'm still looking at a 300w cab? Is 300w enough power handling to prevent voice coil meltdown or am I still in peril using OD and a 100w amp?
You've finally got the grasp on power handling. But the deciding factor is how long will those speakers stand the heat generated when your throwing down tuned or octave fuzz square waves at them. Heat build up is your speakers nemisis, bass heaven tones carry more power, square wave fuzz or distortion carry more power to the speaker, not only does the speaker convert that energy into sound, it also gives off heat as a byproduct. The glues holding your speakers components together can only handle so much heat before they fail.

In a open back cab which has natural ventilation of heat you can get by with this, put that same power and energy transfer into a closed back cab you'll reach that failure point much sooner. So many factors in play here from content your throwing at speaker to design of cab it's a very ethereal equation.
 
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Promit

Member
Messages
2,470
You wont blow those Delta Pros. If you do something else is wrong. I also think that for the most part guitar amps and speakers / tubes etc... are designed to be used with a guitar tuned to 440hz. Every one I am aware of from SRV on who detunes even a half step has speaker problems. I roasted some PA drivers in my old guitar rig when playing lots of dropped D etc... tunes in the 90s.You may want to look into purchasing speakers that are actually made for detuned music. Surely someone makes such a Korn/ Death Metal speaker. I know there is some money in that!
A 4x12 loaded with V30s will happily take 100w of drop G aggression with no complaints. I don't know if this is a normal level of speaker durability but the V30 is tonally the de facto choice for this stuff and works just fine.
 

71strat

Member
Messages
9,362
The V30 with 60 watts and an fs of 75 should be able to take a good bit of punishment and give some pretty good bass response. I would think they would work well. Ive never used them but on paper they should be at the MINIMUM of around double your amps RMS. But they really aren't Optimal for Drop Tunings. They work well enough as people use them.

I myself would never crank speakers unless I have at least double the watts. MINIMUM. Ive got some original Pulsonic Coned Celestion G12Ms 25 Watt 75hz cones. My 38 watt Metro is the Max I will let go through them.

Im also looking for 100%%% x 000%%%% speaker distortion. As in NONE.

I have a 38 Watt Metro GMP45 which is 38 watts. I also usually use 2 x 1 x 12 Ported Cabinets loaded with Hemp Coned JBL E120's . The cabinets were made from the JBL Professional Enclosure Guide. I have 4 of them if needed. I also have 4 x 1 x 15 HC'd JBL E130's with similarly designed cabinets.

So 2 x 1 x 12 or the 2 x 15's ( 105db x 1/w x 1/m ) are good for 300 watts worth of speakers for a 38 watt amp. Maybe 50 cranked. But your 100 watt Marshall is easily capable of over 200 watts if you dime everything, use drive pedals ect.

But I will say.

Even when Hendrix used 8 x 12 Celestion 8 x 12 30 Watters with 55hz cones was still blowing speakers REGULARLY and was always experimenting with different speakers, and often used Dual Showmans loaded with JBL D130F's combined with his Marshalls. Also towards the end he was experimenting with Altec Lansing 417's and JBL D120F's. His last amp was a 70 Twin Reverb from Mannys with D120F's in it. Electric Ladyland was all 100% Altec Lansing.

Duane Allman and Betts replaced the Celestions with D120F's. Randy Rhodes used Altec 417's. Santana uses 417s and E120s with HC's.

For me if I was into drop tunings I would check into the Fane Studio 12L. 200 Watts and 102db. 45-7000 hz and an fs of 49!!!!!

I would stick them in Individually Ported Cabinets... 4 x 1 x 12 Anyone ??? 800 Watts RMS and a Wall of Sound that youll NEVER BLOW. Never Fart Out no matter how hard you push them.

If not those ??

But some Blown JBL E120s and send them to A Brown Soun for Hemp Cones. I still recommend the Ported Cabinets. Mather or TRM can make them.

Electrovoice 12L, Great Plains Audio/Altec Lansing 417H.

For me I would use either the HC'd JBL E120s, Altec 417H, Fane Studio 12L, EV 12L. ALL of them have the frequency response to take full advantage of drop tuning and Overdrive. These speakers take High Power and Low End like no other.


In reality there is No Way that a V30 can correctly reproduce the Low Frequencies of a Drop Tuned Guitar to its Fullest Capability. They work and are readily available. I aso believe with an fs of 75 they could also be used in a correct ported cabinet. But they are on the margin of port or not being useful with a port. But Im pretty sure they are. But fir 5hz it would probably be of marginal worth.

You have to 100% have a Ported Cabinet tuned for the specific speaker to achieve the stated Frequency Response and FS. Not saying a sealed 4 x 12 wont work. But it is Far from optimal and if you ever tried a drop tuning with the Proper speaker and porting you may never go back to a Normal. 4 x 12 or 2 x 12 ect.

You Can make a 4 x 12 with Proper Porting, but each speaker still needs to be Isolated and ported which means even heavier than a regular 4 x 12. 1 x 12's ect make for great portability and huge tone/sound. You can have the cabinets made to be easily stacked too. A Wall of 1 x 12's anyone ???
 

Promit

Member
Messages
2,470
Electrovoice 12L, Great Plains Audio/Altec Lansing 417H.

For me I would use either the HC'd JBL E120s, Altec 417H, Fane Studio 12L, EV 12L. ALL of them have the frequency response to take full advantage of drop tuning and Overdrive. These speakers take High Power and Low End like no other.


In reality there is No Way that a V30 can correctly reproduce the Low Frequencies of a Drop Tuned Guitar to its Fullest Capability. They work and are readily available. I aso believe with an fs of 75 they could also be used in a correct ported cabinet. But they are on the margin of port or not being useful with a port. But Im pretty sure they are. But fir 5hz it would probably be of marginal worth.

You have to 100% have a Ported Cabinet tuned for the specific speaker to achieve the stated Frequency Response and FS. Not saying a sealed 4 x 12 wont work. But it is Far from optimal and if you ever tried a drop tuning with the Proper speaker and porting you may never go back to a Normal. 4 x 12 or 2 x 12 ect.
I disagree completely. Reproducing the frequency spectrum in an accurate, complete way is for bass players. This is electric guitar and it's just not necessary - or even desirable in many cases - to fully recreate these low end fundamentals. The guitar as an instrument is already generating horribly imprecise versions of these notes right at the jack - we don't have the scale length or strings for it until you get into baritone scale lengths and heavier strings. Guitars live in the mids and having the right response at the right harmonics is what it's about. Not reaching the lowest lows at full blast.

The V30 conveniently spikes right at a point that sits really well in a traditional hard rock/metal mix, and emphasizes harmonics that blend nicely. It's not the only way to get there, of course, but it's certainly one of the quickest.

I also have no idea why you brought up Allman, Betts, Rhodes, Santana.
 

Steppin' Wolfe

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,263
Isn't there an aspect of distortion that figures in here---regardless of amp power or speaker handling capability? AS I understand it, a speaker that is being asked to amplify a 'constantly' distorted signal is at excursion for much of the time...without 'rest' to cool things down. A small amp can take out a high power speaker in such a case...according to what I have read and heard over many years. Just wondering.....
 




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