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Questions: Tone Capacitor Value, and Screwy Wiring?

Discussion in 'Luthier's Guitar & Bass Technical Discussion' started by Stratosfear, Feb 4, 2008.

  1. Feb 4, 2008 #1
    Stratosfear

    Stratosfear Supporting Member

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    Hello all, I've got a couple kinda related, kinda unrelated, questions.

    First off, I've got an SG with P-90s in it that has a lot of treble and bite that I really like. I was looking at it's wiring and was wondering what value capacitors it has. I've done plenty of soldering and kit building, but am bad at some of the more technical aspects. I assume these are .022uf, but am unsure:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Second question. I'm working on an Epiphone SG to be a back up guitar and am realizing that it has different capacitor values, which I think are .047uf (those would be darker that .022 right?). Anyways, I've been trying a couple different pickups in it, and I can't help but notice that it's wiring doesn't look like any diagrams I see....

    Can anyone tell if this is wired weird/wrong?:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    sorry it's hard to take detailed pics inside the guitar! I can try to take better ones if it might help....

    Any thoughts/info would help! THANKS!
     
    Stratosfear, Feb 4, 2008
    Stratosfear, Feb 4, 2008
    #1
  2. Feb 5, 2008 #2
    Chikn

    Chikn Supporting Member

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    Firstly, the .047 would indeed be darker/muddier than the .022. Secondly, that looks like a lot more wire than that guitar actually needs. Does everything work correctly? If it does, I wouldn't really worry about it.
     
    Chikn, Feb 5, 2008
    Chikn, Feb 5, 2008
    #2
  3. Feb 5, 2008 #3
    Stratosfear

    Stratosfear Supporting Member

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    Thanks Chikn. Yeah, everything does work correctly which is why I've been telling myself not to worry about it, ha, but I guess I just started thinking about it too much.....

    Are those definitely .022's in the top guitar?

    How much of a difference is there between .047 and .022 ? I've looked for a webpage that would explain that and have not found one, but if anyone has a link that they know of that'd be cool too, and sorry that I didn't find it myself!
     
    Stratosfear, Feb 5, 2008
    Stratosfear, Feb 5, 2008
    #3
  4. Feb 5, 2008 #4
    MrChet

    MrChet Member

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    The question should be, "How does it sound"? If your happy w/ it, then don't worry. If not, don't worry, caps are cheap and easy to change so you can experiment easily. I happen to like paper in oil, 0.15's on HB guitars. YMMV.

    You'll learn more by getting a variety of caps and trying them.

    BTW in the top pic, I'd say it is a .22 cap.
     
    MrChet, Feb 5, 2008
    MrChet, Feb 5, 2008
    #4
  5. Feb 5, 2008 #5
    DSmith

    DSmith Member

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    In the top pics, the "223" on the capacitor = 0.022uF
    In the lower pics, the "473" on the capacitor = 0.047uF

    The other symbols are temperature and tolerance information. See link below for reading capacitors:

    http://wiki.xtronics.com/index.php/Capacitor_codes
     
    DSmith, Feb 5, 2008
    DSmith, Feb 5, 2008
    #5
  6. Feb 5, 2008 #6
    Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Member

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    The wiring looks correct - it just looks like cheap wire. The use of shielded wire for volume to tone and volume to switch is a little unusual, but it alleviates the need to run a copper wire buss from pot to pot in order to complete the ground.
     
    Jack Briggs, Feb 5, 2008
    Jack Briggs, Feb 5, 2008
    #6
  7. Feb 5, 2008 #7
    Stratosfear

    Stratosfear Supporting Member

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    Thanks for all the info guys, it's really appreciated!

    MrChet, the guitar with the .047s does seem dark to me, which is why i was wondering about all this.

    Ultimately it sounds like I need to buy a couple .022s for it. Although I was just reading here: http://www.guitarelectronics.zoovy.com/category/wiringresources.1basicwiringfaqs/ that it says that changing the value only effects the tone when the tone knobs is rolled down. ("Keep in mind that the capacitor value only affects the sound when the tone control is being used (pot in the bass setting) The tone capacitor value will have little to no effect on the sound when the tone pot is in the treble setting.") is that true? If so changing to .022 would most likely be a waste of my time....
     
    Stratosfear, Feb 5, 2008
    Stratosfear, Feb 5, 2008
    #7
  8. Feb 8, 2008 #8
    missing_dave

    missing_dave Member

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    correct...when the tone is on ten its passing through...the vaules you chose to put in tell what is being attenuated by the tone being rolled down..the better ones..better range when turned down..what im told

    now to get all "gear page" on this..companies like angela make $15 ones that my buddy says are great..he lives near them and ill be down his way and am gonna try em out??
    http://www.angela.com/catalog/capacitors/Angela_PIO.html
    (great place high shipping..)

    like said above its what sounds good to you? you could also get a no load tone pot and have none...gives you a little zing etc. since its cutting out some of the circuit..brad paisley says heuses it for solos...0-10 regular tone pot "click" above ten its out of the circuit..

    just my 2.. some more technically savy guys here can maybe give ya a bit more on the details:BEER
     
    missing_dave, Feb 8, 2008
    missing_dave, Feb 8, 2008
    #8
  9. Feb 26, 2008 #9
    Deaf Eddie

    Deaf Eddie Member

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    Actually, ALL tone pots EXCEPT no-loads "bleed" a little, even on "10" - which is why you may sometimes hear a cap change, even if you DON'T roll off the tone control.

    That's WHY the no-load came to be - to avoid/negate that little bit of bleed and the resulting high-end loss.

    In the old days, cats used to open up their tone pots and put a little nail polish on the resistor at the "10" end, to get that "no-load bite."

    It doesn't add anything, it just prevents that little bit of "bleed" which can pull some of the high-end out of your signal.
     
    Deaf Eddie, Feb 26, 2008
    Deaf Eddie, Feb 26, 2008
    #9
  10. Jul 10, 2009 #10
    dmczern

    dmczern Member

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    Hey missing dave, I'm bringing this thread back to find out more about these capacitors. I'm over-hauling my strat and thought I would try to upgrade just about everything. Did you ever try these capacitors our??
    What's the verdict please ??

    Thanks,

    Dave


     
    dmczern, Jul 10, 2009
    dmczern, Jul 10, 2009
    #10
  11. Jul 10, 2009 #11
    K-Line

    K-Line Gold Supporting Member

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    Grab a .022 Orange drop cap, they really sound great. The PIO caps tend to my ear be a bit darker with a different roll off that i suppose I am just not comfy with.
     
    K-Line, Jul 10, 2009
    K-Line, Jul 10, 2009
    #11
  12. Jul 10, 2009 #12
    bluesjunior

    bluesjunior Member

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    I suppose this is an oft debated point but I have always believed it was 0.22uf for single coils and 0.47uf for humbuckers?.
     
    bluesjunior, Jul 10, 2009
    bluesjunior, Jul 10, 2009
    #12
  13. Jul 10, 2009 #13
    dmczern

    dmczern Member

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    Thanks for the input guys !!!

    400 or 600 v ???

    BTW, anyone using the CTS Blender ??

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2009
    dmczern, Jul 10, 2009
    dmczern, Jul 10, 2009
    #13

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