QuickLock releases guitar cables for digital devices

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by Viabcroce, Nov 13, 2015.

  1. Viabcroce

    Viabcroce Member

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    Massimo Varini is a well-known producer, session man and teacher in Italy. He's extensively using the Kemper Profiler live.
    In this video he says that the relationship between passive PUs and digital devices (or buffers) is such that changing the PUs' coiling or combination responds quite differently than when he uses a traditional amp.
    In collaboration with Brunetti Amps, they designed a 1/4" and an XLR cable under the logo True Connections by QuickLock (Eko Music Group).

    For those who do not understand Italian, the demos start around 4:30. If there's no tweaking whatsoever (which should be the case) the differences are quite impressive. Be sure to set quality @ 1080.

     
  2. kyolic

    kyolic Member

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    What the heck? How can I a cable change the sound that dramatically? I won't be believing that they did not change the settings during A/B until a non-party demo proves the same.
     
  3. slugworth

    slugworth Member

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    I don't know that I'd call the change "dramatic" but what I heard is consistent with my experience of using cables of varying quality. In these demos I actually prefer the smoother sound of the SS_ONE cable they use for comparison. That's not to say that more pure signal coming through is a bad thing (it's definitely not) or that the signal chain could not be altered to be optimized for the nice cable and my own ears.

    I think that past a certain point, improving clarity of signal is akin to putting a microscope on a model's skin.
     
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  4. Viabcroce

    Viabcroce Member

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    I agree, I have tried a Japanese cable at a professional friend's (it cost 200 € IIRC) and the difference with my 30 € Reference (a good brand) cable was astonishing with the Profiler.

    Since the guitar outputs a high-impedance signal, the cable capacity is able to impart a meaningful filtering.
    In this case tho, there's a more complex passive circuit added to the signal path inside the cable.

    On a side note, Massimo Varini is not a person who could (and would anyway) risk his reputation by playing stupid tricks that would be revealed at the first purchase. Imagine he is Pete Thorn.
    :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2015
  5. 3dognate

    3dognate Member

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    * Rapco Cable
    * Switchcraft or Amphenol Ends

    2 requirements for my cables... I can replace them at ANY music store... and my tone is consistent.

    * Mic-Drop
     
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  6. Jay Mitchell

    Jay Mitchell Member

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    Because of its already-mentioned very high source impedance, the sound of an electric guitar with passive pickups is easily affected by the cable used to connect it to the amp. Here are some salient points:

    1. The combination of inductance, capacitance, and resistance in the guitar's pickup windings and controls creates a resonant behavior (a prominent peak in the impedance vs. frequency characteristic). Coupled with the input impedance of an amp, this impedance peak can become a response peak. Shunt capacitance in the cable and the amp input (or the input of the first device the guitar sees) affects the frequency at which the resonance occurs: more capacitance reduces the frequency of resonance. This resonance can be as low as ~2kHz with realistic combinations of pickups and available cable.

    2. In addition to reducing the frequency of resonance, shunt capacitance causes high frequency rolloff.

    3. The cable with the lowest shunt capacitance will be most transparent (IOW have the least affect on the guitar's sound). This cable may not be preferred by a given guitarist, however.

    4. There is absolutely no correlation between money spent and sound "quality" of guitar cables. You are just as likely to prefer the sound of a cheap cable as a stupid-expensive one. Additionally, there is no correlation between money spent and quantifiable performance of guitar cable. If you want the most transparent cable (IOW, that with the lowest shunt capacitance), you can purchase or build a cable with the best achievable performance for very modest cost.

    5. If you want to miniimize shunt capacitance, the first step is to use the shortest cable that will work for you. Cable capacitance is dependent on length - specifications will show pf (picofarads) per unit length. Less length = lower capacitance.

    6. If you have money burning a hole in your pocket and just have to spend it on guitar cables, invest in reliability and resistance to damage. Those properties actually correlate with money spent, although you will max them out at a fraction of the cost of boutique cable.
     
  7. MmcGrouty

    MmcGrouty Member

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    Better pick that mic back up. Rapco cables are fine, but the shielding isn't the best, so they pick up noise easier than some other cables.
     
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  8. 3dognate

    3dognate Member

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    The point is that your typical Rapco cable is a good quality cable.... not going to have "handling noise", and is available everywhere... I'm very much not in favor of using hard to find or one off stuff to be a crucial part of a signal chain to get a tone... If something isn't readily available I'll for sure think twice about it. I'm not saying that the Quick-Lock cables are Snake Oil like some audiophile / mojo inducing cables. I am not saying that the Rapco is as good as some higher end cables... Getting the job done and Easily replaced/repaired.... that's gold.

    I've never had a problem with noise in a Rapco cable. I do have a couple of nice Mogami and Canare cables but they don't have any apparent advantage over my Rapco or Hosa cables that were significantly less expensive. (for guitar use, I'll admittedly get pickier if I were doing XLR in a studio, but that's not part of my life at this time.)
     
  9. nicolasrivera

    nicolasrivera Gold Supporting Member

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    Its only possible in Marketing.
     
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  10. cliffc8488

    cliffc8488 Member

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    I'm skeptical. While I don't know what the KPA is using for an input circuit I know the input circuit of Fractal products mimics the input of a tube amp very accurately:

    [​IMG]

    The green trace is a typical guitar pickup into 500 pF of cable capacitance into a tube amp. The blue trace is the same pickup and cable into an Axe-Fx II. The red trace is the same pickup but with only 250 pF of cable capacitance. As you can see cable capacitance is the dominant factor BY FAR. The difference in input impedance between an actual tube amp and the modeler is virtually negligible.
     
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  11. Viabcroce

    Viabcroce Member

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    No, as you can read in this thread a cable's capacitance greatly influences the guitar's spectrum :)

    And, as I and others wrote, field tests show that the difference can be very noticeable.

    Last but not least, Varini is not in the position to bluff ;)
     
  12. nicolasrivera

    nicolasrivera Gold Supporting Member

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    I dont buy it, sorry.
     
  13. Viabcroce

    Viabcroce Member

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    Well, it's not a religion. Grab two cables of very different capacitance and try by yourself, if you want to know the truth beyond your credences ;)

    Strange tho that you may believe that I am lying... :?


    This is in fact the point IMO. While a cable of extremely low capacitance might let the "real" sound of a given PU come out, we'd have been accustomed to hear that PU sound in quite a different way through the decades. This opens the (rethorical) question of which one is the "real" sound, apart from individual preferences.
     
  14. alltogether

    alltogether Member

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    Effect of cable length on tone:
     
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  15. Viabcroce

    Viabcroce Member

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    Thanks, I like this kinds of systematic comparisons :)

    I did not listen to all his speaking, but it seems it doesn't take into consideration the cable's specific capacity. Of course how much the sound is affected (in absolute terms) by using cables of different lengths depends on that magnitude.
    This is basically a parametric test with just... one parameter :p
     
  16. kyolic

    kyolic Member

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    So is there a webpage for this product?
     
  17. bdrepko

    bdrepko Supporting Member

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    No sure I believe this. Curious to see how much they are charging for these. I hope not like the $10K power supply cables.
     
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  18. barhrecords

    barhrecords Member

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    No.

    Cables affect guitar tone if the guitar is passive and there are no active buffers in the circuit.

    I actually prefer a cable > 3 meters for my Strat. The high end loss and low shift of the resonant peak is pleasing to me.
     
  19. Viabcroce

    Viabcroce Member

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    This is even more interesting. The following video introduces a comparison among 13 cables (Sonic Solutions SS_ONE, quiklok Vitamina C, quiklok vintage, Lava clear connect, Vovox Sonorus, Vovox, Esse cable, Romano Burini, Elixir cable, Analysys plus among others).
    In the comments is reported a link to the uncompressed, 24-bit samples plus a MIDI file with the markers for the instruments and the PUs used. The idea is to load all the samples plus the MIDI track in a DAW, and compare from there.

    Interesting lesson about cables by Eng. Brunetti too, but in Italian...

    Interesting enough, @ 6:00 Massimo also says that not necessarily the most expensive cable is "the best" to choose. He names a 130 € cable with a great capacitance, that sounds darker, but with a heavily distorted tone sounds bigger. So, everything depends on the application.

    We should start to choose our cables the same way we choose our PUs, and not consider them a neutral medium. Two different cables will make a strato with high impedance and low-output PUs sound very different in the store. So what to base our purchases on?

    Basically, for those who do not understand Italian the video is useless. But the provided resources are precious.





    I think the Quiklok site would be the one to search.
    the cables are called Sonic Solution SS One and Sonic Solution SS Two. But google returns many links.


    There's really nothing to "believe"... All the guys involved are very big actors on the scene. They would not survive a bluff.

    Just checked, The 5m SS1 costs 40 € in Italy.
     
  20. cliffc8488

    cliffc8488 Member

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    The claim was "changing the PUs' coiling or combination responds quite differently than when he uses a traditional amp".

    The fact that cable capacitance changes the tone is not disputed and has been known for decades. This is a completely different thing than the claim that a buffered input on a digital device does not react the same as the input to a tube amp. We have tested this and found that is simply not true and the graph above demonstrates it.

    Whether more or less capacitance sounds better is subjective. Whether the input to a tube amp creates a different frequency response than a properly designed buffered input is not subjective and objective study shows that there is virtually no difference. Hence any cable claiming to somehow make a buffered input sound like a tube input is snake oil because there is no difference to begin with.

    These "tests" which are based on listening are inherently flawed since no scientific data is presented. One cable is said to have "great capacitance". What does that mean? What is the capacitance? Until the actual capacitance is measured and the frequency response measured it's nothing but a bunch of subjective opinion. The capacitance claim may be false. The ONLY thing that matters is capacitance and that is easily measured (one simple technique is to use a series resistor and measure the cutoff frequency). If you really want precision control make a box with a rotary switch that selects a variety of different capacitors. Follow that by a buffer. Feed it with a very short cable. I believe such devices may already exist. Another technique is to use a driven-shield which effectively cancels the capacitance.

    None of this is revolutionary in any way. It all smacks of marketing and the typical nonsense that accompanies cable sales.
     

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