Raezer style cabs for blues/rock?

Discussion in 'Amps/Cabs Tech Corner: Amplifier, Cab & Speakers' started by doc, Jun 10, 2005.


  1. doc

    doc Member

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    Anybody out there with any thoughts on using something like a Raezer's Edge type "jazz/hi-fi" cab design with a snarling Marshall/Trainwreck/(insert name of fav blues-rock tone engine here) amp rather than the traditional 4X12 heavy as hell cab?
     
  2. doctord02

    doctord02 Member

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    I've used a single 12 closed back cab with both my jtm45 and with my wreck clone and like it a lot - however it's not quite like the style cab you mentioned - it's 12x24x18, no ports, and loaded with a G12H100 Celestion.

    I've also got a pair of the Thiele single 12 cabs that might be more like what you are thinking of... One is loaded with an EV-SRO 12, the other has another G12H100. I havent really tried them with the 'wreck, but then I was planning on using them as wet cabs to complement other cabs...

    I think the key to 1x12's with that sort of amp is superior bass handling ability without mushing out... The same amp that sounds great thru a quad of greenbacks doesnt sound near as good thru a single greenback because to me it loses the detailed punch of the bass. Thats why I like the EV's and the 100 watt Celestions.
     
  3. doc

    doc Member

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    Thanks for the input. My thought is that something like a Raezer's edge design loaded with one of the new neodymium speakers would be about the ultimate in a small portable unit capable of kicking out some dBs. One of the things I don't like about my 4 X 12 cab other than the weight and bulk is with my current amp it has a bit excessive bass. I wish I had time to build something and try it out.
     
  4. crholguin

    crholguin Member

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    Hi. I built clones of a Stealth 12 and a Stealth 10, primarily to use with an Acoustic Image Clarus amp and ES-165, but I also play rock and blues, and at 51 am long past wanting to schlep around heavy gear. For rock and blues, I had been using a 2x12" (greenback+V30) canarywood cab similar to the semi-closed back Dumble design, but I've abandoned that cab in favor of the Stealths.

    IMO, the main problem with closed-back designs is that they tend to be beamy. I've always found the 4x12" Marshall-style cab unacceptably directional. Somehow, the Stealths aren't beamy.

    The tone the Stealths produce is much more balanced, less midrangey than open-back or semi-opened backed designs. Compared to the Stealth, the Dumble-style cab sounds like a megaphone. Pair that cab with a Boogie MkI and a TS-808, and you get midrange up the geech. The Stealths restore some sanity even to that type of rig.

    (I've come to believe that the quick and easy way to make good-sounding gear is to go for the mids, but to get *great* sounding gear you've got to get the highs and lows right, and that's much harder to do.)

    And, of course, there's portability. The Stealths come loaded with Eminence Beta drivers, which at about $60 offer great bang for the buck: they'll handle 150w+ and weigh about the same as Celestions. If the Beta doesn't give an adequate midrange fix, you could always sub in a Celestion or even an EV, which, despite its hi-fi reputation, sounds midrangey in the Stealths compared to the Beta. Also, the Stealth 10 emphasizes mids more than my favorite, the Stealth 12.

    At larger venues, I now take the two small Stealths and spread them out about 15 ft. on opposite sides of the stage. This reduces or eliminates the need to monitor the guitar and produces a wall of sound that is simply huge, way bigger than if I were to place the cabs close together or combine their drivers into one cab.

    I'm going to lose the 2x12".

    HTH,

    Carlos.
     
  5. doc

    doc Member

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    Thanks for the reply. I'm curious now about the Raezer "clones" you built. My impression is that while most guitar cabs were usually designed primarily based on manufacturing convenience, Raezer cabs at least started out by taking into account some Thiel-Small type calculations like those the Hi-Fi builders use and designing for a specific speaker. Did you go through a similar process in your design or just use the same drivers and dimensions knowing it would be close? I actually ended up buying a Raezer, but I'm thinking of possibly building my own clone around a 10 inch speaker in a smaller cab (I have one of the Stealth 12s), but using a different driver than the usual Raezer choices.
     
  6. Paul86

    Paul86 Member

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    Hey crholguin,
    How about some pictures of your cabs? I'm going through a slipped disc phase and can't schlep the big monsters any more. How 'bout some clips? Say, something simple, like a single line riff and one or two chords, clean and dirty?
     
  7. crholguin

    crholguin Member

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    I bought a Stealth 10 and copied it exactly, then sold the original. I did the same with a Stealth 12ER. The S12 just went for $620. It cost me maybe $175 in materials to build, including the Eminence Beta driver, which I decided to use because it sounds great for jazz, my primary style these days.

    Speaker cabs are a piece of cake to build, and there's nothing particuarly difficult about the RE cabs insofar as construction is concerned. The magic is in the design. I don't really understand the acoustics behind the design, so copying the dimensions and materials was the way to go for me.

    Carlos.
     
  8. crholguin

    crholguin Member

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    There's a pic of the 1x10" here:http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a127/crholguin/PJ.jpg

    The head is a modded Fender Pro Jr., a great sounding little amp, BTW.

    I'll take a pic of the two cabs together and record some clips over the weekend.

    Carlos.
     
  9. doc

    doc Member

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    Thats really cool Carlos!
    I think the Raezers are kind of like T-model Fords in that you can get any color as long as its black, so its neat to have yours match your head. I may have to give it a shot myself soon.
     
  10. Paul86

    Paul86 Member

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    Hey,
    I just don't want this thread to go dead. Any more info / pix / clips?
     
  11. rrputnam

    rrputnam Member

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    Hello Carlos,

    Would you be so kind as to post the dimensions of both the 10 and th 12 cabs? A little more detail on your construction would also be appreciated.

    Rob
     
  12. Rod

    Rod Tone is Paramount Silver Supporting Member

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    IMHO, the Neo Celestions are fine for clean tones, but the highs get pretty shrill
     
  13. Rod

    Rod Tone is Paramount Silver Supporting Member

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    Dimensions for the 12 would be great
     
  14. crholguin

    crholguin Member

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    You can see some photos of the original 10 and 12 are here: http://picasaweb.google.com/crholguin/StealthCab

    While your there, you might want to look at the photos of the Vox exhibt at last winter's NAMM show. Some very cool amps and memorabilia if, like me, you happen to be a Beatles fan.

    Carlos.
     
  15. Paul86

    Paul86 Member

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    Have you guys checked out Leonardo cabs? I think the linke is leonardocabs.com
     
  16. Paul86

    Paul86 Member

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    Bumpty bumpto.
    Come on, any more Raezer's edge users out there?
     
  17. doc

    doc Member

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    I ended up buying a Raezer 12 and have used it some with my 'Wreck clone. I think it sounds pretty good, but I haven't gigged with it. Its a really well built cab.
     
  18. Paul86

    Paul86 Member

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    Hey doc,
    Could you give more details? What kind of music do yoy play? The volumes you play at? I have an Alessandro Bloodhound which I currently use with a Mesa Thiele 1X12 (EV), but that cab is damn heavy (but not as heavy as the 4X12 I sold :)), and I'm thinking of something lighter but with the same clarity/detail as the EV-loaded cab.
    Anyone else?
     
  19. Paul86

    Paul86 Member

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  20. doc

    doc Member

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    Sorry it took a while to reply. I play a variety of stuff, but with that setup its blues-rock and southern rock. I've decided the Raezer sounds pretty good with the TW clone but without an attenuator the highs are a little strident. I like it better than my "detuned" 2X12 (its a slant 4X12 cab with just the 2 top speakers in - Celestion 80s) which has the same strident highs. The Raezer has better bass and a bit more clarity. I still haven't gigged with it, so my opinion might change. The Raezer isn't real heavy, but it is solidly built and might not be a whole lot lighter than what you already have. You might consider putting a Jensen Neo or something similar in your present cab and giving it a try.
     

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