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Raising combos up off the stage and tone?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Free, Oct 8, 2006.

  1. Free

    Free Member

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    Guys, I've read and even experienced Bass being lost in a combo amp by raising it off the ground on a chair. Is this a fact of the bass frequecies phase-cancelling or some aural illusion? Can someone please advise how to raise an amp effectively to get better dispersion and improve axis? Thanks much in advance.
     
  2. TieDyedDevil

    TieDyedDevil Member

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    Fact, not illusion. Try these:

    1) Amp on the floor in the middle of the room
    2) Amp on the floor close to a wall
    3) Amp on the floor in a corner

    You'll find that you get increasing bass response as you go down the list.


    The simplest and least expensive way to put yourself more on-axis without losing bass is to tilt the amp back.
     
  3. Free

    Free Member

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    Thanks for confirming and the great tips, TieDyed.
     
  4. rastaman

    rastaman Member

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  5. riverastoasters

    riverastoasters Member

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    You might lose bass you might gain bass. What is really going on is that an interference pattern is set up between your amp and its reflections in any hard surfaces that are close enough. The floor is usually a good reflector.

    Ok so where you stand will affect whether you get more bass or less bass, depending also on what bass frequencies are excited.

    You can learn about interference patterns here.

    So no, it's not as simple as "lift the combo, lose the bass". Or any other simple formula like that.

    But it IS as simple as try it and listen.
     
  6. nickreynolds

    nickreynolds Member

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    I'm curious, why do you want to be on axis? I've always hated that "beaming" sound...
     
  7. riverastoasters

    riverastoasters Member

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    A lot of guys end up beaming someone else pretty hard and not knowing it because the player is off axis. One strategy which can work well is to have the amp point up at you, so nobody gets "beamed".
     
  8. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

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    Beam blocker. Zero beaming. My combos sound great pointed directly at me.;)
     
  9. Free

    Free Member

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    Good question. I don't mean exactly on axis, but close. The thing is that a lot of body is lost when I'm not near axis, and I like knowing exactly what is coming out most fundamentally from the amp, since most PA systems do not accurately mirror this - this just seems to be the case with my amp and the stages I've been on...

    Everyone - thanks very much for your tips and advice.
     
  10. frank62

    frank62 Member

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  11. Free

    Free Member

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    There aren't any prices posted at the site, so may I ask what you all payed for yours?
     
  12. tonemandan

    tonemandan Member

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    It's not an illusion. The percieved bass will change depending on the distance from the speaker to the various surrounding reflective surfaces. I personally prefer my amp ( Deluxe Reverb ) off the floor a bit so I usually set it on stand about 16 inches off the ground. Your mileage may vary....

    Dan
     
  13. ruger9

    ruger9 Supporting Member

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    +1. The "best-cheapest" invention I've seen & used for amps/speakers.
     
  14. Jim Gilmore

    Jim Gilmore Member

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    Question on this: I understand the amp-contact with floor for better low frequency response, important in the studio. If your playing live, and miking for FOH, does it only affect what you hear on the stage? If that's the case, will the FOH be affected by having the amp off the floor, and all the loss of bass response thet goes with? Will the audiance ever hear your off the floor loss of bass through the house PA?
     
  15. rastaman

    rastaman Member

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    I payed $175 for a used extra large from Atlanta Discount Music.

    Here's a link to the Dealers list- http://www.soundenhancer.com/dealers.htm
     
  16. jmadill

    jmadill Gold Supporting Member

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    I've recently been in the habit of getting my amp up on a stand, off the floor. I get better sound. But the reason is not as simple as loosing bass. The real reason is that I can hear it better myself, and am better able to dial in the sound from the amp as it sounds directly, not reflected off my knees.

    -jm
     
  17. Fifthstone

    Fifthstone Member

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    Yes, I've been putting my amp up on a stand and angling up. The amp is right behind me so I can get a real sense of the tone (we don't use loud stage volume). I effectively become the beam blocker.

    I was playing with one band and my massive 2x12 combo was on the floor next to the bassists 4x10 cab and he swore he couldn't hear his bass amp. I raised my amp off the floor onto a crate and all was well. Hmm.

    That Sound Enhancer device looks really interesting.
     
  18. tonedrip

    tonedrip Member

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    This is an excellent topic. I have been struggling a little with amp placement on various stages lately . I like the idea of the combo on the ground pointing up at my back (i have a stand for this). To me, this helps the soundman and main mix cause I'm not projecting outward at ear level into the crowd . But quite honestly , the combo on an amp case about 8-10 ft behind me seems to sound and feel better to me. Not the best solution for the band.

    I'm gonna give the tilt back method more of a chance. Does anyone have their amp in front of them , poiting back at you ? Really enjoying all the input so far .


    curious ; is the wooden slat behind the grill of my badcat a built in beam blocker of sorts ? It seems to run dead centre and vertically in front of the speaker cone .
     

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