REALLY really useful guide for improvisation..

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by ♫♪♫, Sep 29, 2008.

  1. jdh4him

    jdh4him Member

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  2. drfrankencopter

    drfrankencopter Member

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    Ok that was cool..... enough to make me buy the 'Infinite Guitar' book (available for download, so I could print it right away...I love not having to wait!).

    From what I can see so far, I'm gonna like this book.

    Cheers

    Kris
     
  3. Bryan T

    Bryan T Guitar Owner Silver Supporting Member

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    I'm just not wired to think that way. If I'm reading a chart and I encounter a min7b5 I just don't have the brainpower to think "Oh, I should play the melodic minor off of the b3 in order to get a locrian #2 sound." If I want a locrian #2 sound, I'll just play locrian #2.

    All these shortcuts are useful for some folks, but they end up seeming like longcuts to me.

    Bryan
     
  4. ♫♪♫

    ♫♪♫ Member

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    well they also end up making you use different phrasing. If you were to just play the locrian #2 by itself, most people would just use their customary phrasing. However, using a different approach often makes people come up with new ideas and stuff I suppose...?
     
  5. KRosser

    KRosser Member

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    I agree, 100%...
     
  6. kimock

    kimock Member

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    Also called joint, node. Mathematics. in interpolation, one of the points at which the values of a function are assigned!

    I'm going with the joint explanation as being most useful improvisationally. . .
     
  7. JonR

    JonR Member

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    Yes, it depends on what scales you are familiar with already.
    If you know all your melodic minor modes, then applying one of those may be easier than thinking "locrian #2" (and may suggest more interesting phrases). But I certainly find "locrian #2" easier to grab than the related melodic minor.
    So I tend to agree with you, but for me it depends on key.
    Eg, if I see "G7alt", I find it easier to think of the G altered scale (alterations to mixolydian).
    But if I see "F#7alt", I might find it easier to think "G melodic minor" (and Gm and Am arpeggios).
    But then that's only because I'm not as familiar with all 12 keys as I ought to be... :eek:

    However, the scale (or arpeggio) superimposition idea (as opposed to thinking of a scale from the chord root) can offer - in my experience - better-sounding (or more easily memorable) phrases, as the OP suggests.
    Eg, the idea of Gm and Am arps on an F#7 chord is a neat (quick) way to get all the juicy chord alterations, rather than thinking "b9, #9, #11, b13, where the hell are they..."
     
  8. ivers

    ivers Member

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    Yeah, I like the way superimposing brings me away from the root, and I mean, piano players do that stuff all the time, approach in terms of chord upon chord. That approach in my view opens up a lot more exciting pathways than the traditional modal approach to improv.
     
  9. ChickenLover

    ChickenLover Member

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    This is how it works with me.
     
  10. Gigbag

    Gigbag Member

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    The site didn't give any samples of how the book is illustrated. Is it all in standard notation, tab, or both. I see it covers sight reading. Thanks.
     
  11. drfrankencopter

    drfrankencopter Member

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    There's tab and standard notation, but about 1/2 the book is chords, which is just chord grips and standard notation. Not a whole lot of licks to learn in this book...it's more of a guided discovery kind of approach. There's lots of room for the reader to have to go and do their homework (e.g. figure out the various arpeggio fingerings)....very different from something like Sheets of Sound.

    Cheers

    Kris
     
  12. GovernorSilver

    GovernorSilver Member

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    I just heard a good example of this, albeit by a Hammond organist, around 5:00 to 5:30 into this version of Night Train:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BdNpeunRes
     
  13. GovernorSilver

    GovernorSilver Member

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    I'd be interested in reading more about this joint/node stuff, as I'm not understanding how that relates to the article. I have no doubt that a relationship exists, I just lack the background to understand it.

    The article to me looks like a convenient one-stop location for beginning jazz improv students (like me) to look up ideas for improvising over common types of jazz chords. I doubt a more advanced player such as Jimmy Smith (the organist in the Night Train YouTube that I posted) would limit himself/herself to the suggested notes, but again, the article does not seem to be written for players at Smith's level.
     
  14. kimock

    kimock Member

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    knot

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    12 dictionary results for: knot
    Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share Thisknot1 [​IMG]/nɒt/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[not]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciationnoun, verb, knot·ted, knot·ting. –noun 12.Also called joint, node. Mathematics. in interpolation, one of the points at which the values of a function are assigned.

    RRUGFI. . . .knot

    Sorry Gov, that list has nothing to do with improvisation.
    Unless of course you printed it out rolled it up and smoked it!
     
  15. soli528

    soli528 Silver Supporting Member

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    Joints, in my experience, either greatly facilitate or greatly frustrate improvisation.
     
  16. GovernorSilver

    GovernorSilver Member

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    I still don't understand the above.

    Then again, I still have a lot of homework to do anyway, as in, learning tunes, lifting ideas off of recordings, etc. Which may have been the real point, hahaha. I do know that chord-to-chord thinking does not work as well for me as thinking in chunks of chords.

    Thanks anyway!
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2008
  17. kimock

    kimock Member

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    I'm sorry Governor, I just meant to say "REALLY really useful guide for improvisation. . . NOT"

    That list is silly. The A major C major bit at the top really missed the boat.

    Improvisation is about trust.
     
  18. TheBeerBaron

    TheBeerBaron Member

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    "I just heard a good example of this, albeit by a Hammond organist, around 5:00 to 5:30 into this version of Night Train:"


    lol....on a side note, I didn't know that the song that Marvin Berry's band playing the "enchantment under the sea dance" in Back to the Future right before George McFly goes out to punch Biff Tannen was "Night Train"....

    awesome!
     
  19. GovernorSilver

    GovernorSilver Member

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    Jimmy Smith's organ solo made you laugh? Funniest recorded solos for me were by Pata Negra on "Blues De La Frontera", basically a blues done flamenco style, or actually, maybe it was flamenco done blues style.

    Mr. Kimock, no worries, sir. Your posts and Ken's were quite telling - your insight is much appreciated.
     

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