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"Recorded Tone" vs. "Live Tone"

timowens316

Member
Messages
1,418
With modelers/profilers, do you setup your presets/profiles different depending on whether you are using them in the studio vs. live? I'm curious what others think the difference is between the two. Do you use EQ, low pass, high pass, reverb, compression, etc. different depending on the application?
 

Spider-Man

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,773
Since I use a power amp and cab for playing live, and recording is direct with an IR, then yes, I set them up differently. Also, depending on the song, the tone that is EQ'd to fit on a dense mix may sound horrible on it's own.

Reverb is an effect meant to simulate the illusion of space (unless you are playing surf music where it is integral to the tone and the genre) and should be used to achieve the desired effect in the mix. I typically do not use reverb live - the room has it's own reflections. At low volumes, a little reverb can be nice. But at higher volumes or when jamming with friends I find all that reverb does, when its loud enough to actually be heard, is help to muddy up the mix. If you are the only guitar player, then a little reverb isn't as bad, but with two guitarists, I don't think it's necessary or desirable. IMO, reverb should be treated as an effect, just like delays, wah, chorus, univibe, etc..., not an integral part of the tone. YMMV.
 

TheAmpFactory

Member
Messages
835
I'd like to chime in here..

There shouldn't be a crossover between Live play and recorded tones, at the end of the day, you as an artist will need to accommodate what is needed come either mix time, or stage time. first you need to asses and setup your OWN style of sound that you a) feel comfortable with, b) can control and finally c) can help inspire. - once you have these fundamental steps out the way, you can then change the EQ voicing to match any given environment.

Everything always starts with the source... and if your needing to cut, tweek, boost massively before any event, then something is wrong.

A good recorded guitar tone is literally a good amp thats setup well with the guitar its played with... to work in a mix, often just the low end is cut to allow space for the bass.. this is needed because you will only hear this through stereo speakers. - Live play it doesn't matter (as much) as "AIR" will take a big part in the overall sound, and a good sound engineer will filter the low end out when miced up anwyay.

A lot of people seem to think.. ahh I'll fix it at mix time.. this is the wrong, and reverse way of thinking.. as you will start with a recorded tone, then by the time you have EQ'd compressed, added surgical EQ etc. your left with a tone that is not full bodied and thin..and this becomes a LOT worse from amature mixers who don't understand the fundamentals of EQ and compression..

Common sence first. - if you play hard rock/metal and insist on a lot of chug that has a lot of bass, plus add a 2nd guitar player who is doing the same that will leave no room for anything else in those freq. so cutting a little goes a long way for a cleaner sound.

Overall its your tone, your amp, your fingers, find what works for you and enjoy it. then dial small amounts for different places (if you have too).. Finding the right amp for the right style of music is also key.

But I think the question your asking really should of been, "is there a difference between home volume and stage volume and how the guitar sound is shaped", and this is really the bigger difference, not between stage and recorded tones..

Bottom line...

Focus on getting your own tone for the right style of music you play,learn to live with it, learn it and then control it.
 

Pietro

2-Voice Guitar Junkie and All-Around Awesome Guy
Messages
16,448
For me, one of the biggest reasons I prefer to use a modeler is to get rid of the "amp in the room tone" that makes is so I can get a great indication of what the audience (in my case the congregation) is hearing.

In a perfect world, when I record, I want a real amp (or a selection of them), a real mike (maybe two), and a real room and some experimentation to make it sound cool, but I always monitor in the other room through headphones or speakers so that I can hear it "in the mix". But I don't live in a perfect world, don't have the space or cash for the amps I'd love to own, and so I use amp sims in Logic. But that is working great for me, to be honest.

A little while ago I compared the same guitar signal through a Deluxe Reverb, an emulation of that amp in Logic, and an emulation of that amp in my HD 500.

Frankly, they all sounded different, and they all sounded good.
 

barhrecords

Member
Messages
1,523
I'd like to chime in here..

There shouldn't be a crossover between Live play and recorded tones, at the end of the day, you as an artist will need to accommodate what is needed come either mix time, or stage time. first you need to asses and setup your OWN style of sound that you a) feel comfortable with, b) can control and finally c) can help inspire. - once you have these fundamental steps out the way, you can then change the EQ voicing to match any given environment.

Everything always starts with the source... and if your needing to cut, tweek, boost massively before any event, then something is wrong.

A good recorded guitar tone is literally a good amp thats setup well with the guitar its played with... to work in a mix, often just the low end is cut to allow space for the bass.. this is needed because you will only hear this through stereo speakers. - Live play it doesn't matter (as much) as "AIR" will take a big part in the overall sound, and a good sound engineer will filter the low end out when miced up anwyay.

A lot of people seem to think.. ahh I'll fix it at mix time.. this is the wrong, and reverse way of thinking.. as you will start with a recorded tone, then by the time you have EQ'd compressed, added surgical EQ etc. your left with a tone that is not full bodied and thin..and this becomes a LOT worse from amature mixers who don't understand the fundamentals of EQ and compression..

Common sence first. - if you play hard rock/metal and insist on a lot of chug that has a lot of bass, plus add a 2nd guitar player who is doing the same that will leave no room for anything else in those freq. so cutting a little goes a long way for a cleaner sound.

Overall its your tone, your amp, your fingers, find what works for you and enjoy it. then dial small amounts for different places (if you have too).. Finding the right amp for the right style of music is also key.

But I think the question your asking really should of been, "is there a difference between home volume and stage volume and how the guitar sound is shaped", and this is really the bigger difference, not between stage and recorded tones..

Bottom line...

Focus on getting your own tone for the right style of music you play,learn to live with it, learn it and then control it.
Spot on!

If you find yourself making massive EQ tweaks at sound checks, something is amiss.

It is always better to start at the source of the sound. Concentrate on getting a nice full bodied sound. Sounds like these do not "fight" a mix. They just work.

This is one of the "secrets" of the pros. They get great sounds from the instruments / amps. Once you have that, everything else becomes so much easier. Mixing and recording are made simple that way.
 

Badside

Member
Messages
1,552
Live I'll indulge myself with a big more gain and delay to have more fun.
Recorded... I go for what the song needs (often much less gain)
 

burningyen

Member
Messages
14,922
I find I tend to reduce treble and gain for live playing to compensate for Fletcher-Munson effects and feedback vs. what I dial in for home recording.
 




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