Recording from Direct Out...do I need a DI box?

teestone

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So I'm planning on breaking out my old Rivera S-120 combo and doing some recording. I do not want to mic the cab but would rather use the Direct Out straight to my audio interface. In the past when I attempted this, there was an unusable amount of noise and hiss.

This is what the manual says....

"Each power amp is equipped with a low-impedance Direct Out jack suitable for PA mixers, tape recorders, and other power amps. This signal is padded down from the speaker signal and is capable of up to line-level output. If the amp is on standby or the Speaker 1 jack is not used, the Direct Out jack is inoperative. When running the signal from the Direct Out jack to a mixer, it is best to roll off the frequency response above 8kHz."

As somewhat of a novice when it comes to recording...will I need to put a DI box between the amp and audio interface in order to prevent the excessive hiss and noise?
 

TAVD

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It sounds like you don't need another DI but you may need to lift the ground to eliminate the noise.
 

Sendrith

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+1 on ground lift may be needed

Does you direct out have speaker emulation? If no you will want to slap a speaker/cabinet impulse on the track.
 

teestone

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So how do I lift the ground?

:hide2

Also, the Direct Out does not have speaker emulation. Any ideas on a good basic product?
 

Sendrith

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A DI unit with a ground lift would work... It would go between the amp and the interface :D

Get LePou's LeCab2 (IR loader/cabinet simulator) and ReWirez BigBox impulse responses (both free). Open LeCab2 in your DAW, load whatever IR's you like and blend to taste.

Or something like the free version of Amplitude which has a cabinet simulator. Bypass the amp/pedals/fx and just use it for the cab sim. Might be easier.

What DAW are you using?
 

teestone

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A DI unit with a ground lift would work... It would go between the amp and the interface :D

Get LePou's LeCab2 (IR loader/cabinet simulator) and ReWirez BigBox impulse responses (both free). Open LeCab2 in your DAW, load whatever IR's you like and blend to taste.

Or something like the free version of Amplitude which has a cabinet simulator. Bypass the amp/pedals/fx and just use it for the cab sim. Might be easier.

What DAW are you using?
I am learning Ableton Live. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. I enjoy the looping and improvising aspect. I will be working to incorporate my Boss RC-300 too. I like loops.

As for the DI box...would you suggest one of the Radial products or something else?
 

Sendrith

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I'm not an expert on DI boxes, I've only ever used 2; 1 was a Yorkville http://www.proaudiosuppliers.com/yorkville-ydi-1p.html

I forget what the other one was. I used this as a splitter once upon a time -- record clean DI guitar + mic'ed amp at same time. I don't think it really matters what kind you get, some people get anal about 'sound quality' when 99% of people can't tell the difference. I usually just avoid Behringer :p

Ableton is a good daw if you can get your head around how it works and how to work with it.
 

teestone

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I've never messed with a DI box myself.

The Radial ProD2 or ProAV2 both look like they might work well. They both have a ground lift switch. The AV provides more input options.

http://www.radialeng.com/r2011/prod2.php
http://www.radialeng.com/r2011/proav.php

Why the stereo in's and out's you might ask? I utilize the Rivera S-120's stereo effects loop for some stereo modulation, delay and reverb.

I love the concept of Ableton, but I'm really struggling with it having used pedal loopers for so long.
 

Rex Anderson

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5,111
The direct out on some amps sound like doo-doo. It is putting out line level for recording and a direct box won't help if the signal coming out of your amp direct out sucks. Wrong interface anyway.

Direct boxes take your guitar output and make it balanced mic level, so you need a mic preamp to bring it up to line level to record it.

If you are using your amp's direct out correctly and you don't like it, you can either mic the cabinet or get a direct box and use plug ins to to emulate a guitar amp and cabinet.

Sorry, sometimes things just don't work the way we want them to.
 

teestone

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The direct out on some amps sound like doo-doo. It is putting out line level for recording and a direct box won't help if the signal coming out of your amp direct out sucks. Wrong interface anyway.

Direct boxes take your guitar output and make it balanced mic level, so you need a mic preamp to bring it up to line level to record it.
I would never know if the Direct Out's sound good. They always hissed aggressively when I used to run them direct into an old Mackie mixer.

Which interface is wrong?...the Radial?

What is a possible solution?

My audio interface(Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL) has mic pre's built in. Will they be able to bring the source up to line level?
 

Rex Anderson

Member
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5,111
If you are trying to avoid using your speaker cabinet for some reason (too loud for home recording) and your amp head's direct out is too noisy to use (sounds like that is the case), you need to plug the output of your amp head into a load box (so you don't blow up your head-it needs a speaker load).

There are boxes that handle that and emulate speaker cabs for recording.

Sorry, I'm no expert on those and thus can't recommend one. Ihave read good things here on TGP about Palmer and Two Notes

http://www.palmer-germany.com/mi/en/Speaker-Simulators.htm

http://www.two-notes.com/en/hardware/torpedo-live/

Here's another thread on your issue:

http://www.digitech.com/soundcomm/guitar_view_thread.asp?productid=235&thread_id=1077385472
 

Rex Anderson

Member
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5,111
ProCo DB-1 is a direct box. It will take the speaker output from the amp (many other direct boxes will too) to give you a recording output, but you still need plug in to the speaker cabinet (I think) to properly load the amp head.
 

teestone

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I have looked into the load boxes...the Two Notes stuff looks great, but a little on the pricey side.

Ideally, I would leave the speakers plugged in. Take the two output signals, A and B or Left and Right from the two Direct Out's...run that into a stereo DI box and then to the audio interface. I could then use a cabinet emulator from within the DAW to breathe some life into the two signals.

In theory it sounds simple. I just want to make sure the signal source I am sending to the interface is the correct one. I always assumed the noise came from an improper load.

It has been a long time since I have messed around with this type of setup. The last few years I've been primarily messing with Fractal gear. But that is a whole other story for a different thread.
 

Rex Anderson

Member
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5,111
Not an improper load. If the audio coming out of your amp head plugged into your interface or a Mackie mixer is noisy, then, well, it's just bad, noisy audio. Maybe there is a problem with the circuitry in that stage of the amp that can be fixed.

Your description of what you want to do helps. A Countryman Type 85S will rock your world.

http://www.countryman.com/type-85s-direct-box
 

tonewoody

Member
Messages
1,671
If you are using the line out you need to have the speakers hooked up. Recording the speakers with a mic will sound better than using the Rivera Line out.
 






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