Recording guitar... cab mic? ambient mic? What do you suggest for both...

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by t0neg0d, Aug 8, 2005.

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  1. Aug 8, 2005 #1
    t0neg0d

    t0neg0d Member

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    Looking for peoples take on mics for the following:

    Close cabinet mic -- what you used, placement, if you liked it and why

    Ambient mic -- what you used, placement, if you liked it and why

    Combination of cab and ambient mics -- what worked well together

    Give me an idea of the type of application (music style) and the amp and cabinets recorded.

    P.S. The Sure SM57 is called an industry standby because it makes you want to do just that... put your amp on standby.
     
    t0neg0d, Aug 8, 2005
    t0neg0d, Aug 8, 2005
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  2. Aug 8, 2005 #2
    tonefreak

    tonefreak Member

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    I double mic my amp with a Sennheiser 421 and e609... sounds great to me!

    For ambience... I hear the Royer 121 ribbon mic is really good, although I have not tried it.
     
    tonefreak, Aug 8, 2005
    tonefreak, Aug 8, 2005
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  3. Aug 8, 2005 #3
    Antero

    Antero Member

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    Ribbon mics are fantastic for guitar amps.

    Zing! :D
     
    Antero, Aug 8, 2005
    Antero, Aug 8, 2005
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  4. Aug 8, 2005 #4
    TAVD

    TAVD Guitar Player Gold Supporting Member

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    I got a great sound from a Blue ball last week. Funny thing is that the first time I used it and the most recent time are the only two times that it's really impressed me (both times on different Fane speakers). On my 4x12, I usually end up with a 57 or 517, which is very much like a 57. The original GT mics are nice but bright ambient mics.
     
    TAVD, Aug 8, 2005
    TAVD, Aug 8, 2005
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  5. Aug 9, 2005 #5
    Chiba

    Chiba Gold Supporting Member

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    I close-mic with a small variety of mics - Sennheiser e609 & e609 silver, Studio Projects C3 (on cardioid), and a few different BLUE mics - the Ball, the KickBall (really good on a bass cab), and a Dragonfly. I did some recording with a Royer ribbon and dug that as well, but it wasn't mine.

    I usually mic about a half-inch off the grillecloth, but sometimes pull it back 5-6 or 10-12 inches depending on how 'present' I want the sound of that particular track.

    For miking farther away, it's either the C3 or the Dragonfly, and I'm planning on trying out my BLUE Baby Bottle for that purpose soon. For distance miking, I'll start out 2, maybe 2.5 feet off and adjust from there. Farthest away I ever miked something was the C3 about 6' off the center of a VERY loud 1x12 combo; I had the C3 in figure-8 mode and stood behind it to play so the mic picked up the amp and my hard strumming - it was a cool sound.

    I rarely double-mic, but when I do it's a 609 up close and the Dragonfly about 3-4 feet off the amp.

    --chiba
     
    Chiba, Aug 9, 2005
    Chiba, Aug 9, 2005
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  6. Aug 9, 2005 #6
    pbradt

    pbradt Senior Member

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    Cab Mic: SM57. Used the world over.

    Ambient: MXL 603s. Good bang for the buck.
     
    pbradt, Aug 9, 2005
    pbradt, Aug 9, 2005
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  7. Aug 9, 2005 #7
    TAVD

    TAVD Guitar Player Gold Supporting Member

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    I got a great sound from a MXL 603 once but didn't mention it because I thought it was a fluke. I used one on an Emery spotlight, with it's thin bright sounding 10" speaker, hanging the 603 close front (capsule aimed at the floor). The off axis sound killed all the highs from the speaker, I guess. Anyway, like I said, a fluke.
     
    TAVD, Aug 9, 2005
    TAVD, Aug 9, 2005
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  8. Aug 9, 2005 #8
    t0neg0d

    t0neg0d Member

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    I appreciate all the feedback! Currently I am using a AKG C1000-S pointed directly at the center of the cone up against the grill cloth. And even though this mic is not very popular for recording anything (never mind guitar), I am getting favorable results with it (much better than a SM57 -kack- or the CAD... or the EV for that matter). But, since I have a little extra money to throw at a few new mics to record with... I thought it would be good to get some opinions before doing so.

    I have liked the recordings I have heard done with the e609 silver... and I hear the original has a slightly different sound which is liked a bit better in most cases.

    Not sure if I wanna blow the money on a Royer ribbon mic without getting some time to play with the mic first. Can anyone post an example of a recording done with this? Would be most appreciated!

    I have been hearing great things about the Blue Ball as well... but yet to hear anything done with his mic. Anyone got a sound clip?

    Thanks in advance!

    P.S. The reason I don't like the SM57 is there is a distinct signature (sort of a boxy overtone) sound that comes across on every recording I have ever heard/made with this mic. It is decidely "un-musical" to my ears :(
     
    t0neg0d, Aug 9, 2005
    t0neg0d, Aug 9, 2005
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  9. Aug 9, 2005 #9
    MichaelK

    MichaelK Member

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    I got this technique from a friend of mine who engineered for Eric Johnson. He (my friend) told me that this is Eric's preferred technique. It's all I've been using ever since:

    Speaker cab in a very resonant small space, like a tile bathroom. SM57 about 1.5 inches from the grill, dead-on axis, pointed directly at the seam where the dust cap meets the cone. Use a flashlight if necessary to make sure you're aimed at the right spot.

    The mic is close enough to get a big sound from the speaker yet with just enough space to pick up a hint of the room reflections. This makes for a full yet still dry & tight sound.

    In my experience, which is admittedly not as vast as some folks, when someone has not been happy with their results using a SM-57 it's usually been because of poor mic placement. It's not a sensitive mic (duh), but its polar pattern is very unforgiving. Off-axis doesn't cut it, not to my ears. Any farther from the grill doesn't cut it. Obviously there are other methods and other mics that sound great, but this works so well for me and is so fast to set up that I go right to it. I've never been disappointed.
     
    MichaelK, Aug 9, 2005
    MichaelK, Aug 9, 2005
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  10. Aug 9, 2005 #10
    t0neg0d

    t0neg0d Member

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    Thanks Chris...

    I will run by Andy's shop sometime this week and see if Ed is there. Think I'de like to consensis from a couple of the people there... ask him how many different placements he tried with the mic before returning it, what amp, if the room was at home or in Andy's shop... he kinda has a big ass wherehouse type space and if the placement was away from the cab... such and such and so on.

    Not to be on the picky side of things... but I am looking for a decidely late 60's to early 70's sound.

    Early today I threw together a track using the C1000-S close mic and the NTK about 9' away 2' to the left and at a 35 degree angle to the cab (crossing the projection path) and got a really cool result... very Zep'ish.

    Only problem was.. I was playing in the same room inbetween the mics... and I can sorta hear the pick against the strings... kinda cool... kinda not.

    As cool as this room sounds (ambience in here rocks) I am getting sick of spaces limitations :(
     
    t0neg0d, Aug 9, 2005
    t0neg0d, Aug 9, 2005
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  11. Aug 9, 2005 #11
    t0neg0d

    t0neg0d Member

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    Micheal... thanks for the tip... I will give this a shot and shortly post a mic comparison thread under members soundclips - I'll mic my cab with the different mics I have access to, different placements, different combinations and see if I can get some peoples input to the results.

    Please keep an eye out for thread... would love to get your opinion on the results.
     
    t0neg0d, Aug 9, 2005
    t0neg0d, Aug 9, 2005
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  12. Aug 9, 2005 #12
    TAVD

    TAVD Guitar Player Gold Supporting Member

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    Ed's clip was done with an AEA r84, I believe. I liked that clip but I can see that mic being more effective with lower gain stuff. They have a newer mic, the r92, which is one I've been wanting to try. On the subject of ribbons, I once read that Eddie Kramer often used a Beyer m160 on Jimi's amps. Be careful if you try that one, since they have rather low spl handling.
     
    TAVD, Aug 9, 2005
    TAVD, Aug 9, 2005
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  13. Aug 10, 2005 #13
    Antero

    Antero Member

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    The m160 DOES sound good, though.

    In general, if you're using a ribbon you need to back the mic off a bit.
     
    Antero, Aug 10, 2005
    Antero, Aug 10, 2005
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  14. Aug 10, 2005 #14
    MichaelK

    MichaelK Member

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    Recordings I've heard using the Royer are very different in character. It's a much more open sound than close-miked techniques. Don't get me wrong; I think it sounds great and it may work for many mixes, but it's unique.
     
    MichaelK, Aug 10, 2005
    MichaelK, Aug 10, 2005
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  15. Aug 16, 2005 #15
    Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    I'm always here. Yup, hated that mic I had here.
    I'm also no fan of the Royer's for gain stuff.
    But I gotta warrn you I consider matte H. a friend.
     
    Ed DeGenaro, Aug 16, 2005
    Ed DeGenaro, Aug 16, 2005
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  16. Aug 16, 2005 #16
    t0neg0d

    t0neg0d Member

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    Don't even know if this is worth replying to Ed, but I'll give it a whack anyways...

    Let me ask a question... this might save me a trip down there.

    What are you warning me about?

    Are you warning me that you don't want to talk with me because a friend of yours was flat out rude/offensive and you have his back no matter what he does?

    Are you warning me I am not welcome in Andy's shop because a friend of yours was flat out rude/offensive and you have his back no matter what he does?

    Are you warning me that you are not interested in passing along what you learned from the experience because a friend of yours was flat out rude/offensive and you have his back no matter what he does?

    Please let me know. I think it will go a long way in showing your character. Can you, in all honesty, show me in what way Matte's snyde comments were meant to be anything other than just plain offensive? And if that is something that you are willing to support blindly... than Andy is the one ending up taking the brunt end of this exchange by losing a customer.

    Has it crossed your mind, that because you work for Andy and use his site link in your signature, that you are representing THD Electronics as a company everytime you post on this forum (which is very much related to the business Andy is in)?

    As a co-founder of an IT related company, I wouldn't be very pleased with an employee who is representing my company and involving themselves in exchanges like this. Especially, considering that BOTH parties are THD Electronics customers.
     
    t0neg0d, Aug 16, 2005
    t0neg0d, Aug 16, 2005
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  17. Aug 16, 2005 #17
    Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    This is neither the time nor place for this discussion.
     
    Ed DeGenaro, Aug 16, 2005
    Ed DeGenaro, Aug 16, 2005
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  18. Aug 16, 2005 #18
    t0neg0d

    t0neg0d Member

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    I completely disagree, Ed. This IS both the time and the place for this discussion.

    You are a representative of THD Electronics and because of your response to this post, I am going to have to insist that you take the time to represent your company on this matter.

    Please respond appropriately or should I take up the matter with Andy on the subject?
     
    t0neg0d, Aug 16, 2005
    t0neg0d, Aug 16, 2005
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  19. Aug 16, 2005 #19
    matte

    matte Senior Member

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    Chris,
    Threats (either couched or overt) are simply bad form and don't speak well of the poster. You have a beef with my opinion? Take it up with me. I stand by my word(s). :)
     
    matte, Aug 16, 2005
    matte, Aug 16, 2005
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  20. Aug 16, 2005 #20
    drezdin

    drezdin Member

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    My guess is Ed was just letting you know something, so you wouldn't bad mouth his friend in front of him. Why is that a big deal? Who wants to here someone talk smack about their friends.
    Ed is good people.
     
    drezdin, Aug 16, 2005
    drezdin, Aug 16, 2005
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