Recording issues part deux: MIDI latency

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by Tyrone Shuz, Apr 16, 2008.

  1. Tyrone Shuz

    Tyrone Shuz Member

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    I have Sibelius G7--goal is to be able to play a MIDI guitar into computer and produce a TAB or Notation score for students--licks and solos, that kind of thing.

    I have a MIDI pickup on a strat, and I have a Godin classical, and I have a Roland GR-1, which I'd just like to use as an interface (local off?) but the problem is, the latency makes it impossible to play live.

    I called Sibelius and they set my GR-1 as my synth (local on) but the MIDI map is all off (not General MIDI) so the click track doesn't sound like percussion. It tracks kinda-sorta OK, but I don't think it's my answer.

    I've been told the problem could be w/the GR-1, or my sound card (Sigma Tel Audio integrated).

    A guy at a music store suggested the AX-50, but it's pricey. He said it tracks better than the Roland GI-20. Will the AX-50 solve my problems? Will it take over for the sound card, or will the card's problems (if there is one) still be apparent.

    I don't care about sounds at all, I just want to create scores LIVE, and not tediously inputting stuff via mouse or cpu keyboard.

    And I'd like to fix the problem w/o spending money on three or four different things before it's fixed, and since I'm not doing anything major, it seems silly to buy high-end stuff. What's the fix?
     
  2. guitarhelper

    guitarhelper Member

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    The Gr-1 is a few generations old in terms of Midi. I have both the Gi-20 and the Axon Ax-50. No sounds in either of them.
    I use Sibelius to input stuff for lessons with the Axon. It is quicker than the Gi-20 especially on the bottom two strings. Harder to setup but worth the effort and the added features. It has a software editor so, no editing on board like the Gi-20. If you are doing simple projects and not worried about playing fast runs , etc the Gi-20 should work -- easier to work with and setup. When I am doing serious stuff I use the Axon.
    Gi-20 $395 vs Axon $495 or so...

    Set the units to how you play- sensitivities, etc.
    Also in G7, there is a midi input filtering under "Notes/Note input options"
    that has to be adjusted to get clean notation I have my velocities set to 40

    Brian
    www.guitarhelper.net
    axon review: http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2007/Sep/Axon_AX_50USB_Guitar_to_MIDI_Controller.aspx
     
  3. Tyrone Shuz

    Tyrone Shuz Member

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    OK, so if the GR-1 is not at fault, these units won't solve my problem, and I'll still need a sound card or recording interface, or should/could I use the Kontakt Player that comes w/G7?

    Where do you get your sounds? From your soundcard, or do you have a software or hardware synth?
     
  4. guitarhelper

    guitarhelper Member

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    The Gi-20 and the Axon AX-50 are USB so they do not have to go through an audio interface. You can use the audio output from the computer and use the Kontakt player in G7. I would use Kontakt for playback.

    If I was going to give a student an audio cd of an exercise, I would actually record my guitar audio(with an audio interface) into Logic or GarageBand to match the notation. The playback on G7 might be a little stiff. Bends, slides... do not playback well.

    Brian
    www.guitarhelper.net
     
  5. Unburst

    Unburst Member

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    Hi Tyrone!

    I use Sibelius all day every day to input notation and tab and ime, using midi guitar is the most time consuming way of doing.

    Sibelius' midi guitar input is useless, it doesn't recognize what string you're playing (easily implemented) doesn't recognize string bends and arpeggios come out as a whole mess of tied notes.

    I use a cheap USB midi keyboard to input pitches and step input the rhythms, it's pretty quick and needs no clean up.
     
  6. guitarhelper

    guitarhelper Member

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    Sibelius will recognize what string you are on. Set the midi guitar channels under: "Play/Playback and Input devices". Also set tab range for tab notation.

    Brian
    www.guitarhelper.net
     
  7. Unburst

    Unburst Member

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    Is that in v5?

    I haven't tried midi guitar input since v3 I think.

    What about string bends?
     
  8. guitarhelper

    guitarhelper Member

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    I am on S4. Check in S3 it might be there. G7 has it.
    Arpeggios can be solved with the plugin: "Remove overlapping" notes under Notes and Rest.

    Brian
    www.guitarhelper.net
     
  9. MichaelK

    MichaelK Member

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    I'm gonna catch flack for this but I really feel it's true...

    Unless something has changed dramatically, all MIDI-input notation software sucks... IMO.

    I love Sibelius as notation software, I am a fan. So this is not anti-Sibelius. It's had this MIDI input feature for years, and in my experience it is not worth the aggravation. It never comes through right the first time, and the time wasted finding and fixing every error is much more than you would have spent just inputting it correctly note-for-note... manually.

    That's the best thing about Sibelius, manual input is fairly easy once you learn the technique of coordinating your left hand on the keyboard with the right hand on the mouse. It does take practice!

    The playback feature is a great way to check the accuracy of a chart, but musically it sounds like Robbie the Robot. Conversely, it won't record a chart accurately unless you play like a robot.
     
  10. Unburst

    Unburst Member

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    Agreed.
    Left hand on a midi keyboard and right hand on the numeric keypad for rhythms works well for me.
     
  11. MichaelK

    MichaelK Member

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    I was talking about data entry in Sibelius
     
  12. TAVD

    TAVD Guitar Player Gold Supporting Member

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    Midi latency is very low, like just a few ms. You're likely hearing latency from the software . I don't really see how a different piece of midi hardware will help. I think the answer lies in the way you monitor the guitar. I'm not quite clear about your setup so I'll leave the solution to someone else.
     
  13. Tyrone Shuz

    Tyrone Shuz Member

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    Setup = MIDI Guitar (I have two, a strat w/GK-2 pickup, and a Godin MIDI-ready)

    I then go 13-pin into a Roland GR-1, which I'd just like to use as an interface (local OFF), not a synth (local ON), but I'll use it as a synth if it'll track right.

    From there I go into a cheapie MIDI/USB adaptor and into a USB port.

    I run a new version (bought in Jan) of Sibelius G7.
    My computer is a dual-core 2.2g processor w/2GB RAM. (Dell Optiplex)

    I get MIDI notes EXTREMELY late either in SONAR or Sibelius. That's why I believe it to be a hardware issue. But I could be wrong.

    And HELLO Unburst, long time no type! The Sibelius guy did say a keyboard would be more robust than a guitar, but I just am not facile on the keyboard. I'm pretty quick inputting notes the long way, but certain rhythmic divisions, especially on tunes that swing only sometimes are a real PITA. I can always slow it down and be accurate and robotic. I'm not looking for art in the playback, only accuracy in the transcription.

    I'm not sure the new G7 recognizes bends, but it recognizes each string, as I have them set on channels 11-16, and when I hit a note, it appears there on the fingerboard.
     
  14. Unburst

    Unburst Member

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    So was I.
    Pitch input from midi keyboard, rhythms from the numeric keypad.
     
  15. Unburst

    Unburst Member

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    Hey man, good to see you!

    Sounds like an audio monitoring problem, have you tried monitoring from the GR-1?
     
  16. Tyrone Shuz

    Tyrone Shuz Member

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    How would I do that?
     
  17. Unburst

    Unburst Member

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    Turn local on and monitor with headphones while you play.

    Does it have a midi input?
     

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