recording of crunch tone help

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by gugertl, Jul 18, 2008.

  1. gugertl

    gugertl Member

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    Im currently recording some guitar tracks for a tune and ive managed to get a decent clean sound and a pretty nice lead sound but i cant seem to manage to get a nice crunch sound (bridge PU). The problem is that i get alot off fizz, hair and nasty sounding crap, The low end sounds flappy and unfocused. I´ve tried moving the mic around, using eq and whattnot. Anyone got any tips, usefull frequencies etc. The equipment used is: A strat, BB preamp, Koch studiotone (20W Voxyish class A), Sm57, Presonus firepod straight into cubase. I´m thinking that the room might be an issue since its pretty small and boxy but I´m close micing so that shouldn´t be such a big deal... Right?
    Thanks in advanced
    //Gugertl
     
  2. gixxerrock

    gixxerrock Member

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    I have had some luck in Cubase with an anemic crunch tone running it through their guitar amp simulator plugin. The plugin sounds weak on its own, but sometimes it will boost and fill out some missing frequencies.
     
  3. Kenny D

    Kenny D Member

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    +1 on the mic position and reduced gain. They are probably the primary factors.
     
  4. gugertl

    gugertl Member

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    Thanks a bunch guys. Lowering the levels actually helped a bit. Though i ended up using a beta52 instead of the 57. Turned out ok i guess. Again, Thanks alot!
     
  5. rob2001

    rob2001 Member

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    Instead of trying to capture what I hear in the room I spend time tweeking the amp, guitar and/or pedals to what the medium is hearing by monitoring with monitors or headphones. I'm not farmiliar with Cubase but I also work on EQ and dynamics in the recording medium. I consider that an extention of the rig that needs tweeking. After a while you kindof get to know whats gonna work out and what isn't gonna fly at all. Turning gain down really is key. I've found that the gain that sounds good on tape is usually half of what sounds good to me "live". I've also learned that many times, guitar tracks that sound bad solo'd often sound much more appropriate in the mix of a full band.

    FWIW, I had to adjust my playing to sound good with less gain than i'd normally use. Which to me is a good thing. I've always loved high gain stuff. Some will say you shouldn't curb your style but i've found i've developed a far better style playing with less gain. And really, if you listen carefully, most of the stuff you think is high gain really isn't very high gain at all. A crushing rythm track can be a product of multiple low gain tracks with possible slight delays/verbs and compression.

    Fizz usually comes from too much gain/distortion from the rig, too much treble and not enough mids. Flabby bass is.... well.... too much bass! Work on those and you should find improvement.
     
  6. Podgorny

    Podgorny Member

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    A strat running into a low-wattage class A amp is not the setup that comes to mind when I think "crunch". Great clean sounds, sure. Lead tone, sure. Slightly overdriven classic sounds, definitely.

    But for crunch, no.
     
  7. Griz

    Griz Member

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    +1 Wisdom. :dude

    Have you asked this question over in the Sound Hound Lounge or Amps and Cabs? I know it's a recording question, but someone who knows a lot about amps might have some good tips.

    Lamotta77 makes a good point. And if you can get away with it, turn up the master volume to let the output stage of the amp get more involved. That little Koch is a sweet amp.

    The BB is a great pedal; maybe if you use it more as a cleanish boost rather than to get grit, and let the output stage of the amp do the rest.

    As others have said, there will be limits to what a stock Strat will give you in terms of crunch. A bit of double tracking with the amp's output stage just starting to grind will sound heavier than one very distorted track, depending on the kind of crunch you want. Experimenting with mic positioning is a good idea too; a straight-on-the-cone-center position will sound harshest. Move the mic around and listen.

    So many flavors to choose from. :stir
     
  8. Figher53

    Figher53 Member

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    That's exactly what I thought when I read the OP. Maybe a great tone in other contexts, but crunch? I dunno...
     
  9. Sikor

    Sikor Member

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    Have You tested recording output of the Studiotone?
    Even if You would not use it for final recording, it could be helpful just to compare both tones (mic vs rec-out).
     
  10. Birddog

    Birddog Member

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    I've had some of the same issues. On one song I resolved it by using the secondary 'mixer out' jack on my Bad Monkey and running it direct to the computer. Great amp sim built into that cheap little pedal! Gain about noon gave me nice, distinct crunchiness that I could not match no matter where I mic'd the amp. This way you can also run out to your amp and record the amp AND go direct. I did this too, but ended up not using the mic'd track because the BM direct sounded so good.
     
  11. nbarts

    nbarts Member

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    If it sounds the way you describe it then your rig setup is your problem. I'd say check your amp settings first, then go from there.
    If it's muddy try to roll down the bass, thin - roll down the treble. Most importantly tweak your amp while listening through monitors. You can get the base sound listening in the room, but you can't possibly predict how your microphone is going to "hear" it, so some additional tweaking will be necessary.
     

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