Recording with Demeter or Randall ISO cabs

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by ampvoodoo, Jan 18, 2006.


  1. ampvoodoo

    ampvoodoo Guest

    Has anybody used these for recording if so please tell me about your experiences. Would you recommend either of these cabs. Currently I use Bogner cabs miced in a room but am unable to record past 11:00 pm due to the new neighbors in my studio.

    Thanks Bob
     
  2. gtrnstuff

    gtrnstuff Member

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    I have two of the Randall iso cabs. They do tend to sound boxy, but with the addition of acoustic foam inside the mic half to break up the parallel surfaces, it's OK. Still not like a big cab in a big room, or even a small cab in a small room.
    I found that a Sennheiser 609, black or silver, seems to eliminate more of the box tone than an SM-57, 609 being hyper-cardioid.
     
  3. neve1073

    neve1073 Member

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    I recently brought out a demeter ISO cab out of long-term storage and put a 16ohm greenback in it. I did some tracking with it with a 50 watt plexi and was not very happy. It was still too loud for the home studio situation. Also, the cab didn't have that sound I was after and you are extremely limited about microphone placement and choice. I tried it with a power brake to attenuate the level. Still not thrilled.

    I am going to work with it a bit more next week. I am going to try running an ac30TB thru it--I did some tracks for a cd in the mid '90s using that combo of an ac30tb and the demeter and the results were pretty good.

    I may try adding some foam inside the demeter. I'll see if I can get my hands on a 609. Any other tips would be welcome.

    I'll let you know what the verdict is, but at the moment I'm fearing that a podxt will be the better sounding option for quiet recording.
     
  4. js54

    js54 Member

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    I have the Demeter Iso cab and here's the deal with it.

    It is not perfect, but if you live in an apartment or other recording unfriendly environment, its the best option IMHO.

    I've tried POD, Amplitube and Guitar Rig - they are not bad, but for me they are unusable.

    With the Demeter I have it in an Anvil road case. Otherwise its still too loud for late night use. With the Anvil, its like a muffled tv and I can record all night long.

    How does it sound?
    Pretty good overall. It does get resonances and buzzes, but thats the physics of the thing. I get to hear my amp amp and speaker and retain all the natural response and feel that a digital system can't provide. Plus, did I mention the Demeter allows you to play a REAL amp and sepaker!?!
    Yeah, the tone might be compromised a bit, but let's face it, you don't think about buying a Demeter if you have 24-7 access to a killer studio without pesky neighbors.

    Overall, when I evaluated all my options, the Demeter came out on top. I did have to fine tune my rig a bit, but the results are worth it. No digital!
    Also, I think its a waste to own a lot of high end amps, guitars, pedals, etc and then record with a POD or not record at all.

    If you work with the box, mics, and EQ your tracks right I think you can get good results. I would imagine a Bogner would sound pretty good with it, just roll down the bass and take the time to tweak with things. You might have to rethink your speaker and mic selection as well.

    When I get a chance I'll try to post some clips.
     
  5. Jerrod

    Jerrod Silver Supporting Member

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    Use the Search function on this site. There have been many posts on this topic. I use a Demeter box and like it. Ed DeGenaro produces world-class recordings with his. Others have also posted their experiences.
     
  6. neve1073

    neve1073 Member

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    Ok, that's encouraging me to try harder with the demeter for a project I'm working on in a home studio. I have a few questions for you:

    -where did you get the road case for it; is it custom built?Did you drill holes for the spkr and xlr cables?

    -what kind of speaker are you using in it?

    -what amps and volumes sound good to you?

    Thanks
     
  7. monacosis

    monacosis Member

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    i use a homemade iso box that is roughly the same dimensions as the demeter. i often run a cranked mesa/boogie mk I and, yeah, it is a bit loud outside the box. after blowing a few celestions, i now use a EV 12 with no problems (and better results).

    overall it beats any modeling-type gadget i've used, but it has its own set of problems. the biggest one for me is the lack of ambience; to compensate i have to spend a lot of time tweaking outboard reverbs to add a realistic sense of air - assuming i am going for a more traditional guitar sound.

    i suppose most recording techniques are compromises in some way, but the iso box tends to fix more problems that it creates, esp. when tracking live bands.

    mike
     
  8. gtrnstuff

    gtrnstuff Member

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    OK, I read a couple of other threads re:Iso cab. Noticed Ed Degenero uses 57 and 609, my current faves.

    Has anybody tried an *omni* (?!) really close to the speaker? It would have little or no proximity effect and you might be able to get way more speaker than box tone. Of course, that close to the cone it might sound awful.

    I don't have one or I'd try it and post the results.
     
  9. js54

    js54 Member

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    neve1073,

    -I got the road case from GC Hollywood for $20. They had a bunch of old stuff sitting in front of the store and I grabbed this thing. I believe it was used by some band to carry a bass cab in. I bought it thinking that I could use that alone, but it was waaay too loud. Forutnately it was big enough to house the Demeter, which I bought later.
    I had to drill a hole in the side - I got a 1" forstner bit from Home Depot and now run th spkr and XLR cables through it. Took all of 2 minutes to do.

    -Speakers: I currently use a Celestion Greenback. I've also used a Vintage 30 and G12H30. I'll probably throw the G12H30 in there as soon as I get a chance, its the best overall speaker. I also have an adapter ring for a 10" spkr, I have not tried this yet. Pulling the Demeter out of the road case and switching speakers is a pain! It would be nice to find one speaker that does it all. I find that the lower wattage speakers work better in the box.

    -I mostly use a Germino Masonette or a Clark Tyger (tweed bandmaster). However, the Tyger puts out 35 watts and therefore requires a higher rated speaker than the Greenback or G12H30. The Vintage 30 is cool but not as nice as the others. I'm thinking of getting an Eminence Red Fang. I think an 18 watt amp and a tweed or blackface Deluxe with a g12H30 would be a great way to go. Cranking the high powered amps overloads the box too much.

    I run the amps about 5 and 3 on the volumes and I use a tonebone classic for med to higher gain stuff. I think the key to the Demeter is not cranking the amp to max, keeping your bass low, and find a sweet spot with the amp/pedals that will not create too much buzz/resonance.
     
  10. neve1073

    neve1073 Member

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    Thanks for the ideas,js54.
    I like the idea of getting an oversized bass cab road case. If big enough you could even potentially pad it some more, plus it's raised off the floor by wheels.

    I didn't know you could get an adaptor ring for a 10" speaker. I want to try that and then power it with an old princeton or low watt maggie.

    Finding the sweet spot is what I want to do. It's encouraging that there is one to find.
     
  11. js54

    js54 Member

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    No problem.

    Give Adam at Demeter a call, they might have some 10" adapters laying around.
     
  12. DrDespair

    DrDespair Member

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    Hi.

    I have a homemade Iso-Cab.
    It´s basically a trunk, 40x40x120 cm, inside another trunk (about headhigh, 80x80 base). the inside box is hanging on 8 thick rubber rings (used for attaching/isolating an exhaust pipe of a Mercedes Benz : )).

    22mm MDF constuction.

    I have several 40x40x40 speaker cubes to put in there.

    after closing the two vertical „trunks“ (I hope this is the right word), I can crank my VHT 50. just a istant hummming.

    my Mesa subway is inaudible.

    oh, and th 609 rocks…
    Downside: It weighs about 120 Kg (the box, not the mic)


    DrDespair
     
  13. Orren

    Orren Member

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    As fate would have it, I actually have the Demeter Silent Speaker Chamber, loaded with a V30, and with dual mic goosenecks and inputs (a $100 option, upping the price to $850).

    Now that I've moved into a condo, I can finally spread out, post up my own soundproofing (the joy of ownership! :) ) and I've not been using it like I used to.

    Although I like it, because I've not been using it, I'm toying with the idea of selling it. If someone has a serious offer drop me a PM...

    Orren
     
  14. wsaraceni

    wsaraceni Member

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    i am currently "upgrading" my iso cab at home. replacing the speaker with a bad cat modified celestion. The only clip i have recorded with it was the mini cat clip in the clips section. i still have a lot of experimenting to do. it is loud enough outside the box that you can still play along with the thing fully closed and the stereo on. obviously that way doesnt sound anywhere near how good it would open. i also put it on an auralex gramma cause the thing vibrates a good amount at high volume on the lower strings.
     
  15. tacorivers

    tacorivers Silver Supporting Member

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    I just recieved a Palmer PG-03, and it is incredible! Those looking for a silent recording solution should look into this.
     
  16. DrDespair

    DrDespair Member

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    Update on my Iso-Cab:

    I've sent it through the bandsaw.
    I made a simple mistake, but sonically deadly.

    every room, no matter how small, has resonances.
    the resonances of my cab are right in the middle of guitar-relevant frequencies!

    Ok, that would be the case for almost every box of similar dimensions.

    Being all designer, I did the 40x40x120(leaving 80 loaded),
    DOUBLING/TRIPLING (correct English?) the Drops and peaks!!!

    If anyone tries this my way, please select different measures for each direction. any calculating program can give you the dimensions that spread the drops and peaks most evenly (you could even aim at frequencies yu want to emphasize/kill)

    drDespair:jo
     

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