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Replacement tubes and speaker for Fender Super 112

dangayle

Member
Messages
404
I just bought an old Fender Super 112 with missing tubes and missing speaker for $30, so I get to put in essentially whatever I want. The original tubes were 2 x 6L6GC, 1 x 12AT7 and 2 x 12AX7, but I'd like to lower the volume down to practice amp/recording amp levels if at all possible (5881s instead of the 6L6s?).

As to the loudspeaker, again I'd prefer something that sounds great at lower volume ranges.

Suggestions?
 

DaveKS

Member
Messages
16,704
Well the difference in vol between 5881 and 6L6gc will be slight. At the high voltage those era amps threw at tubes I'd doubt you get more than 7w drop for the pair. Plus you'd probably get shorter tube life with the 5881.

To tame vol you want a low efficiency (not power handling, efficiency rating) rated speaker, probably something in the 96-97db SPL range.

A 5751 in v1 and maybe v2 also will give you more latitude on gain and vol knobs. Easier to dial in vol, the vol knob, especially on gain chan is very touchy on those, going from quiet to very loud with just a small movement.
 

dangayle

Member
Messages
404
Well the difference in vol between 5881 and 6L6gc will be slight. At the high voltage those era amps threw at tubes I'd doubt you get more than 7w drop for the pair. Plus you'd probably get shorter tube life with the 5881.

To tame vol you want a low efficiency (not power handling, efficiency rating) rated speaker, probably something in the 96-97db SPL range.

A 5751 in v1 and maybe v2 also will give you more latitude on gain and vol knobs. Easier to dial in vol, the vol knob, especially on gain chan is very touchy on those, going from quiet to very loud with just a small movement.
Thanks for that info. So replace the 12AX7s with 5751s? I have read that one of the biggest complaints about that amp was dialing in the gain channel, so that might be a really good suggestion.

Any suggestions on a low efficiency speaker?
 

pdf64

Member
Messages
7,643
The plate dissipation limiting value of the power tube used does not determine an amp's power output.
The rule of thumb that folks seem to go by (an amp's power output is the sum of the plate ratings of the tubes used) is the class A limit, whereas the class B limit is about 4 x that.
So a class AB amp can be anywhere between those.
An amp's power output is set by other factors, eg VB+ (loaded), OT primary Z.
The performance characteristics of 5881 and 6L6GC are the same, so there's no reason they should put out any less power.
 

DaveKS

Member
Messages
16,704
Thanks for that info. So replace the 12AX7s with 5751s? I have read that one of the biggest complaints about that amp was dialing in the gain channel, so that might be a really good suggestion.

Any suggestions on a low efficiency speaker?
Well what type music do you plan to use this for? Ever plan to actually gig it?

And one thing your going to have worry about is the caps in that amp, how long did it set unused and never even powered up? Caps age and 30yrs even if they are used/powered is point they probably need replaced, caps age even less gracefully when they set unpowered for many years. If you go filling it with tubes etc, powering up after 5-8yrs maybe even a longer spell of disuse those caps will probably burst and usually take other components with them.

Usually best approach is slow cycle the amp up, apply low voltage say 95-110v, turn amp on for 3min, shut off, don't play, wait 3hrs, repeat, wait overnight, then 5min, repeat, your trying to reform the caps by doing this. If you go throwing 122-125v common in most houses these days at it and just cold start playing it usually within a day or sometimes even a couple hrs those caps will burst.

If this is a graveyard resurrection as I suspect it is, and if you don't have equipment or knowledge to bring it back from dead you'll probably be $$$ ahead of the game to let a qualified tech do what needs to be done to resurrect it from the grave. Replace needed caps, bias up power tubes, clean tube sockets and jacks, clean and relube pots, etc, etc. yes it costs money, but not as much money as if you take the other route, burst a cap which then takes resistors and other components with it. These are circuit board based amps that will induce moans and groans from techs if they have to go replacing resistors and traces on a circuit board not to mention the extra $$$ your going to have to pay them to do it.
 

dangayle

Member
Messages
404
Well what type music do you plan to use this for? Ever plan to actually gig it?.
A variety of music, but I intend this to be my practice amp. Many of the reviews I've seen of this amp say it is very versatile, so that's good. I'd like to preserve that. This might be a good candidate for the Eminence Maverick amp with the switchable efficiency knob thing. A bit pricey, but that might accomplish what I'm looking for across the board.

If this is a graveyard resurrection as I suspect it is, and if you don't have equipment or knowledge to bring it back from dead you'll probably be $$$ ahead of the game to let a qualified tech do what needs to be done to resurrect it from the grave.
Yeah, I plan on bringing it into a tech to do all this. The power cord is a mess, the volume knob is broke, and surprisingly, the plastic inputs are just fine, lol. I want to pick out the tubes and the speaker first and have the guy do all of it.
 

DaveKS

Member
Messages
16,704
Tad 6l6wgc, fat bottle GE clones to me are best sounding bang for buck tubes these days. But make no mistake, these era amps are hard on power tubes. Me, I'd pop pair of GE 7581a I have in it and I probably won't have worry about power tubes for a decade, new production tubes your probably going to be replacing them every 3-4yrs depending on how many hrs you put on them.

Me in red knob amps I like RCA 12ax7a v1>sylvania 5751 grey plate 2 mica v2 and jan GE 12at7.

Speaker I'd probably try a Steamboat Hemp 100. Big clean headroom is what you want for those amps. As a practice amp your going to be dialing vol down and big hempy bottom works well there.

Best use of those amps two chan is using gain chan as boosted gritty, edge of clean, usually around .75-2.0 on gain knob, yes they are that touchy, the 5751 in v2 help there. Once you pass 3 on that gain knob dirt chan is so much louder than clean it's not funny, better to keep vol up and gain down, it sounds like a boosted version of the clean chan there and shared EQ will work with both.

Then you use a dirt pedal or 2 in front of that and you can kick in that boosted chan after them for hard OD.

Only good tones on drive chan is very 80's shredder and it usually takes a EQ tweak to dial it in, it can be dialed into sound very nice, but those EQ settings suck when you switch back to clean chan. Your better off dialing it in as clean/boosted light dirt then using pedals/preamps out front for harder stuff.
 

dangayle

Member
Messages
404
lol, anyone have any idea how to remove magic marker from the red knobs? Whoever owned it tried to black out everything. Probably spent more in markers than he would have if he had just gotten some black knobs off of ebay :/
 

DaveKS

Member
Messages
16,704
lol, anyone have any idea how to remove magic marker from the red knobs? Whoever owned it tried to black out everything. Probably spent more in markers than he would have if he had just gotten some black knobs off of ebay :/
Pull them soaking in alcohol should probably work.
 

jay42

Member
Messages
7,054
Try a 12ax7 in the phase inverter position for a bit less headroom. Paul Jackson Jr. used one for a time. The clean channel is probably good. I prefer something Celestion in Fender amps, like a V30 or 1265. ymmv

As the first generation of Fender tube amps with printed circuit boards, I believe there are some reliability issues, but can be fixed semi-indefinitely. A cold biased Fender will always sort of suck so that has to be taken care of. Thinking...you could put the JJ 6V6's in for lower output. They can take the B+.
 
Last edited:

J M Fahey

Member
Messages
2,663
The above suggestions will tame power a little, no doubt, but amp will still be very very loud.
Going from, say, 55W to 50W will not turn it into a home practice amp by any means; knocking 1 or 2dB by switching speakers is not enough.

To begin with, just use the Master Volume , that's what it's there for; it's not a Blackface Twin which has to be pushed to deafening levels to get grit and sustain.

And in the unikely event that the OP just *NEEDS* power tube grind, then the proper tool to use is an attenuator, the only way to knock down , say, 10dB for garage band practice / small Club / Church use or 20dB for bedroom use.

But of course it's easy to knock 10 or 20dB using the Master Volume which is already there.
 

dangayle

Member
Messages
404
Time to necro this thread. Finally got the work done. Instead of trying to be fancy, I just decided to restore it as cheaply as possible. A local amp repair guy did the following:

- Used Eminence speaker, don't know what model
- Used tubes, don't know what kind
- New spring reverb tank (didn't know that was broken)
- New spring reverb cable (didn't know that was broken)
- Red knobs from his pile of old junk
- New Fender logo
- Replaced master volume pot, all pots cleaned
- Misc. re-soldering of connections
- New grounded power cable

I mean, about the only thing he didn't replace was the tolex. Charged me $250, which considering my initial investment and the amount of labor involved, seems like a pretty good deal overall.

Even with the rando tubes and speaker, I plugged it in and went YEAHHHHH. It sounds awesome. It's really nice in both channels, very complementary to each other, especially since they share the same tone circuit.
 




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