Requesting top Blues & Rock licks/tricks

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by 1Way, Nov 14, 2005.

  1. 1Way

    1Way Member

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    I'm a beginner at lead. I want to go thru the Blues before really getting to Rock and Roll. I know a bit about the Pentatonic and blues scales, especially the first position. I would like help starting out in leadwork for Blues, and blues type Rock and Roll.

    I know about basic things like bends and hammer ons etc, so that is not the sort of thing I'm looking for. Besides learning a scant few signature leads, I know about "1" lead trick/move!

    My example
    It's a classic rock and roll trick that is reminiscent of Chuck Berry's style. Playing the first position starting at the nut. You pick the 3rd string on the second fret, and the 2nd string open at the same time. Then you bend up the 3rd string (one step/fret) while both strings are ringing out.

    You can also just pick the 3rd string alone, then bend it up one fret's worth, then strike the 1st and 2nd open strings together. There are some variations on this theme, but this is one cool foundational classic lick trick.

    TAB and sound bytes are cool
    If possible, I would prefer including guitar tab, sound files help too. Of course, video would be great, but who's got such things readily handy.

    So please either list, explain, tab, or otherwise display your top 5 lead tricks/licks.

    Thanks!

    Training resource suggestions
    Also, if you know of any excellent training resource over such things, please link or suggest away!
     
  2. Tim Bowen

    Tim Bowen Member

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    Hi,

    Licks and tricks are great. Learn a bunch of them. That's how I/we/you have built a vocabulary.

    If you truly want to move beyond such, I would heartily recommend that you learn to very quickly identify the minor or major thirds over any chord that might come your way. The 3rd interval is the building block of Western Harmony - harmonized chords are constructed of stacked thirds, and the resolved 3rd interval is what Western ears call home.

    After that, I would suggest getting intimate with the natural and flatted seventh intervals, and particularly for blues and jazz playing.

    Thirds and sevenths are quite large, while roots and fifths are fairly neutral and unobtrusive.

    Go back to the thirds as home base, and learn how to suspend 2nds/9ths and 4ths/11ths, while ultimately resolving to the almighty 3rd/10th interval.

    Learn the tritone relationships and flat five substitutions within the basic I-IV-V parameters within any key, for starters. Obviously, it goes beyond such.

    After getting hip to 3rds, 7ths, 2nds/9ths, and 4ths/11ths, check in with 6ths/13ths. Diatonic 6th intervals are absolutely intrinisic to musical expression, in my opinion.

    I would next suggest getting hip to the sounds of the raised 4th/flatted 5th (the blue note).

    #5, and #9/b9 would be last in the usual pecking order, and there are other melodic considerations as well.

    Get hip with the thirds first, sevenths after that, and keep learning those licks.
     
  3. 1Way

    1Way Member

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    No offense, but something tells me to
    get out of the business
    or just
    find a new hobby
    if I ever get that concerned about theory.

    I would rather listen to
    someone who loves to play what they are playing and not be able to tell you squat about using a diminished 7th, or "resolving to the almighty 3rd/10th interval" or whatever,
    rather than to listen to a professional technician who knows it all in his head.

    Isn't there a point of overkill concerning music theory? If you know how to play what you need to know how to play very well, then why would it matter if you could not specifically explain how your music relates to music theory?

    I partly do not in the least want to object to learning theory because I was a Bible (and theology) student for some time. I know that it's ok to know things and that does not necessarily detract from an issue of the heart.
     
  4. 1Way

    1Way Member

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    Tim
    You said
    Have built???
    Have not!!!
    I'm hoping to learn some things that I do not already know. I have no vocabulary, I just noodle around responding and hopefully following along on CD's and such. I almost always get it wrong because I simply do not know lead technique tips and tricks.

    So for the sake and purpose of this thread, please focus on offering basic lead technique tips and tricks.

    Thanks!
     
  5. ofortuna

    ofortuna Guest

  6. lhallam

    lhallam Member

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    This is a public forum full of very knowledgeable folk.

    Everyone has their own approach and Tim's is valid although probably a little advanced for a beginner.

    His approach is an effort to prepare you for a greater understanding of what's going on rather than providing a bunch of licks to memorize. In other words instead of showing you an overused pentatonic lick, he's showing you how to come up with your own ideas and preparing you for musical growth.

    Castigating him for taking the time to help you is in poor form. If you want help, I suggest you do it a little more graciously otherwise people are going to ignore you.

    OK for a tip/trick. Each note open string and each note on the 7th fret of each string will work over a G major chord.

    So you can combine open strings and fretted notes on the 7th fret to come up with some cool ideas. The F# on the 7th fret B string can be a little tricky. You may want to play the 8th fret B string (G note) instead.

    They will also work over a C chord but you must be a little more careful on the B string. Try the 1st and 8th fret on the B string for a C chord.
     
  7. Bonedance

    Bonedance Member

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    There are a ton of beginner books, dvd's, videos, etc on playing the blues. If you don't want to be bothered with learning theroy and just want to play some licks and tricks...search these out. They would probably be the best route for you to take.
     
  8. Bonedance

    Bonedance Member

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    By the way, thanks for the detailed information Tim. l've been playing the blues by ear for the past 35 years. It's just been the past 5 years I've started to get off my lazy ass and learn why certain things I play work and why other things don't. I sure wish I would have had the wealth of information you put forth here when I fist strated. While I'll never be a theroy kind of player,
    ( go back to that lazy part! ) I'm looking forward to incorporating much of what you put forth here. Thank you Tim. I greatly appreciate it!
     
  9. ABKB

    ABKB Member

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    +1, and lhallam is a nicer guy than I am. After your little rant I had no intention of helping you. A little respect goes a long way here 1Way, and Tim was cool enough to try and teach you a very simple idea. If you didnt want it you could have just ignored it. Most of the guys here are highly respected pro seasoned musicians. The days of noodling to CD's are long gone for most of us (though most started that way and still do enjoy it from time to time), the difference was we listened to others along the way. So here's MY lesson, learn a little manners and come back and try it again. You might get farther here AND learn a lot more in the process. No offense intended of course.
     
  10. raz

    raz Member

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    I should certainly hope not. Indeed, as a student and teacher of the subjects you mentioned, I'd hope you'd see it the other way 'round: the more you know, the more receptive your heart is.

    You described a lick. You know that lick and you can play it in that one place. With a little theory, you'll learn how to play that lick all over the neck, instead of waiting for the one key where your lick works.

    Fourth euangelion, eighth chapter, thirty-first and thirty second verse. Comprende?

    Karis...
     
  11. 1Way

    1Way Member

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    ofortuna
    Thanks, I checked it out. I like the licks and tricks section. My computer can play .rm video files which is really fortunate because it has troubles with different of multimedia files!


    lhallam
    You can't call thanking the guy while redirecting the focus of my quest "castigating". I specifically said that he got the "I already learned vocabulary" bit wrong. Please be more careful not to chastise for something I did not do. Being gracious, thanks, good tip!


    Bonedance
    You said
    Tried that, waaaay too much weeding out to find just some simple helpful lead technique tips and tricks. I seek the lead licks that solos are built upon, not longer more complex stuff. Sorry if I'm not using the right term there.


    All
    What is the right term for the following lead technique?
    ?
    Thanks for your assistance for what I am looking for. If you have other advice for other things, then maybe post about that in another thread... and maybe link to it here.
    :)
     
  12. 1Way

    1Way Member

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    raz,
    You said
    I don't think that is what my problem involves. Unlike your description, I can play that lick for any key. I see that lick in a position on the blues scale, not just in the location on the fretboard. I learned long ago that the blues scale for example, is mobile, you simply shift it too whatever key you are playing in. So that is not the sort of info that I am looking for, rather I am seeking that kind of foundational lead lick trick! I hope this helps.
     
  13. lhallam

    lhallam Member

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    Not a reprimand, a friendly bit of advice so that you can get the most out of your question. Obviously I'm not the only one who interpretted your posts as being somewhat gruff. My goal is to serve.

    While there is no particular name for that technique you describe that I know of, the interval you are playing is called a Perfect UNISON.

    An interval is a description of a sound two notes in relation to each other. For example if you play an open string then the same note on the 12th fret, that sound is called a perfect octave.

    An interval of a perfect unison means the same note.

    In this case, when you stretch the G string up an interval of a Major Second AKA a whole step is is the same note two frets down on the B string.

    In your second example, you are playing a unison on the G and B strings and then adding an interval of a perfect 4th on the E string.

    The biggest advantage of knowing theory is that allows us to communicate better. Just like with any discipline music has it's nomenclature.

    I've never met Tim but if we were to jam, all I'd have to say to him is I-IV-V with a iii-VI-ii-V in F. Please play a #9 on the V and we'd be off playing together in a matter of seconds although strangers.

    When I go to open mics and have to tell guys where the notes and chords are on the gtr. That's wasted valuable stage time.

    Whether it's overkill or not is debatable depending upon your goals. If you take the instrument seriously and learn as much about it as possible, you will eventually see the beauty of Tim's post.

    EDIT - I suppose I'd call that technique a "bent unison". EG - "Bend up to a unison on the adjacent string."
     
  14. LithiumLulu

    LithiumLulu Guest

    I agree with what lhallam said. Although I am in no way good enough to be able to follow him if he told me that, with 2 minutes and a piece of paper I could figure it out. I have had a lot of frustration jamming with friends when I can't tell them chord names and have them find them. They all think it's cool not to know any theory or how to read real music notation. It's not cool, it's a big waste of time when you try to communicate your ideas.

    If you just want to learn licks and don't care about anything else buy the guitar magazines with tab in them and learn the parts of solos that you think sound cool.
     
  15. Tom Gross

    Tom Gross Supporting Member

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    OK, try this, a familiar Major pentatonic thing (shown in A):

    --------------------5---------------------------------------
    -----------5---7-------------------------------------------
    ---5--6-----------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Slow, it's a good opening lick.
    Fast it's a swing or county-rock thing.

    Um,...if you don't like it, please don't yell at me.
     
  16. LithiumLulu

    LithiumLulu Guest

    WOW TOM, THAT'S COOL!!!!

    You didn't say not to yell if we did like it. :D
     
  17. 1Way

    1Way Member

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    Tom
    Thanks for helping me get back on track. Even without me playing it, I can tell i'd like it. It's a little single stringy for me, but that is more of the type of assistance that I am currently looking for.

    Sorry for jumping your case about the already gained vobab mistake. Stuff like this will help me actually start a vocab. I've asked this sort of question on different forums and it's been frustrating dealing with many responses that are not very focused on the topic/request of this thread.
     
  18. 1Way

    1Way Member

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    lhallam
    Thanks for clarifying and the added input. I really had in mind the most complete part of my example, where you bounce off the 3rd string, then rhythmically hit the last two strings in a jumpy rhythmic pattern, like the most common lead phrase in Johny Be Good. Personally, I think the term lick or trick seems to apply, but it's certainly not a full solo/lead, it's just a succinct phrase. Plainly, I'm not simply looking to do such bends that happen to resolve to the same note. My quest is a more general one. Let me restate it. What is the right term for lead work that fits between the following things;
    - bends, hammer ons, pull offs, slides, etc.
    - and lead solos (usually several measures to many measures long)
    ?

    LithiumLulu
    I don't mean to be argumentative, so first I'll say that I agree that knowing theory can be a very good thing.

    However, I think it's cool when you understand music and keys well enough that you can play along without knowing the music formulas. It's hard for me to imagine for example that if you were playing with a new singer, that you would have to tell that singer what key and chord progressions etc are going to happen, because singers sing by ear, and so do many of the best musicians out there.
     
  19. LithiumLulu

    LithiumLulu Guest

    Nothing to argue about. If you've got something you're comfortable with, that's great, go with it. I think most of all music should be fun and if all the theory isn't fun for you there's no point.

    For me, theory is fun, and I need every edge I can get, because being a girl and "hispanic" I don't get taken very seriously.... until I turn on my amp and rip their faces off. :)
     
  20. Tim Bowen

    Tim Bowen Member

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    1Way, I'm truly sorry, I had no intentions of being condescending or less than helpful with my previous post. I can assure you that I was being entirely sincere, as to the best of my abilities. When I alluded to the notion that learning classic licks, as combined with a strong ear for interval recognition, is a choice route, that's exactly what I meant. Please understand that, as of Wednesday, I'm a 45 year old guy that has done this stuff and taught this stuff for a very long time, and that's how I pay the bills, for what it's worth. I'm not a virtuoso. When I was a young man learning the trade, most of my lessons were handed to me in a very cut-and-dry fashion by salt-of-the-earth cats. While these lessons were never comfortable at the time, they've been the best that I've been fortunate enough to obtain. I'm not a fan of wasting time, as time is quite precious, and what I offered was in the spirit of cutting to the chase, if you will. As an old man, I continue to be educated by folks of all ages, intents, tastes, and persuasions.

    I see that you've received some great insight as to your original query. What I'll do here is to toss out some "tritone" (3rds & b7ths) stuff that's big fun, and is quite practical across a wide variety of genres. For basic reference to the following, check Led Zeppelin's "The Lemon Song".


    Over E7 (I7):

    --16--
    --15--
    --X--
    --X--
    --X--
    --X--

    Over A7 (IV7):

    --15--
    --14--
    --X--
    --X--
    --X--
    --X--

    Over B7 (V7 - possibly "altered", as with #9):

    --17--
    --16--
    --X--
    --X--
    --X--
    --X--

    The I-IV chord/interval relationship there is a pretty good primer for how basic flat five subs work (I'll spare you the math). If you dig these sounds, find those relationships within the key of E (blues), all over the board, and then give 'em a spin in other keys, such that you'll effectively own them. The tritone is a fairly useful harmonic device.

    Again, my apologies for coming off as less than sincere, which was not at all my intention.

    Best,

    TB
     

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