reverend kingsnake or fender?

[rorschah]

Help me decide!

I'm in the $500-$700 range, for an amp for small-venue/club use. It'll be for overdriven blues and clean jazz.

I was aiming at a Deluxe Reverb or an old Pro Reverb, but've been hearing a lot about the Reverend Kingsnake... and now I hear they're getting out of the amp business.

So the Kingsnake's various features and switches seem great. Main question is - how're the cleans? I play single coil and 335's straight in for jazz, and want a nice bass response and sparkling upper ends. How's the Kingsnake do for that?

Thanks!

 

[rorschah]

bumpity.

 

[fr8_trane]

Haven't heard anything about Reverend getting out of the amp business. I was under the impression that their amp line was fairly popular. Anyway the Kingsnake is a good amp in your price range. I found it a little bass shy, sterile and stringy compared to the lush clean clean tones I get from my SFDR. The 3 preamp modes do sound very good when driven. Overall I think its a very versatile and good sounding amp with a build quality a notch above the mass produced stuff. That said you might also want to check out the Fender Hotrod series and the peavey classic/delta blues series. These amps are also in your price range have excellent clean tones and servicable drive channels. I'd take either one of these over the Fender DRRI. They are cheaper, have an equal or better clean tone, are more versatile, take pedals better and have the same build quality (circuit board) as the RI amps. Also the traynor YCV series amps seem to be getting alot of good press recently so these may be worth an audition although I think they are more rock oriented. Happy hunting.

 

[AshlandBump]

It's true that Reverend is discontinuing all of its amps to concentrate on building guitars.

The other guitarist in my band just got a Kingsnake head and an Avatar 2x12 cabinet with the Vintage 30/G12H30 combo for speakers. I can't really speak for the combo amp but that head and that cabinet make a great combination. It has plenty of bass and, when played in the 60 watt mode, a lot of headroom. In fact, he replaced his Fender Deluxe Reverb (Silver Face) with the Reverend. To him and to me, there's no comparison, the Reverend/Avatar combo sounds a lot better.

 

[Glenn_K]

Interesting on the Kingsnake head/Avatar w/Celestian combination. I have a Reverend Goblin, which is basically the Kingsnake in 15watt form and I'm shopping for the right cabinet for it. Probably a 1 X 12.

 

[fr8_trane]

I just put an eminence Private jack in my 30 watt rivera and it sounds much better than the stock celestion. Tighter, but fuller low end and it also sounds good clean on the fender channel.

 

[fr8_trane]

I just put an eminence Private jack in my 30 watt rivera and it sounds much better than the stock celestion. Tighter, but fuller low end and it also sounds good clean on the fender channel. Avatar offers this speaker with their 1x12 along with the option for a closed back which would provide even more bass.

 

[TheGrooveking]

I wonder if Reverend getting out of the amp business is true, but alsoI noticed that Visual Sound has a line of amps out now. Visual Sound's owner is very close with Joe Naylor. Joe has always sold Visual Sounds pedals. MAybe not relavant, but you never know.

TheGrooveking

 

[fr8_trane]

Its official. The reverend website now lists all amps as discontinued with limited available stock. Get your limited edition "NOS" Kingsnake while supplies last.

 

[porterburst]

The cleans of the Kingsnake are really good! Much better amp than any of the Fender Hot rod stuff. Don't like the Hot Rod series at all! The stock EH tubes sound pretty good, but with great pre amp tubes installed…..1950-60's RCA 's , Tung Sols 12AX7’s, or Mullards...this amp sounds amazing. The power tubes are ok, but you can find better 6L6'sl. I installed nos tubes in the Reverend Goblin 5/15 and it sounds great!

 

[Jon Silberman]

I tried NOS RCAs, GEs, and Philips in my Hellhound. Ended up putting all of the stock EH tubes back except for a Chinese 12AX7 in V1 (for more headroom/spunk).

Naylor voiced both the HH and the KS for EHs, save your expensive NOSs for some other application.

 

[porterburst]

Don’t know about the Hellhounds, but one things for sure: Played with various Strats, and Historic Les Pauls including a Y2K 59 Re, Duane and Dickey sig LP: With the Revered Gobin 5/15 nos tubes made a clear and obvious difference in tone for me period. 50's RCA long black plate in V1 gave the Goblin a fat smoky tone that is sweet with a nice round bottom, cool mids, and snappy but sweet high end. With a 60's RCA's the tone is rich but more scooped and cleaner in tone. Great hollow LP neck tones! With a Tung Sol 5751 in V1 you get good gain and super sweet high end. With a Mullard in V2 and a LP, you get great honk and sweetness with clarity. In the phase I have a Mullard box plate that keep every thik sweet and clear with that great Mullard gain. In the reverb driver the tone of the reverb and overall gain and high end is defiantly effected by the type and brand 12AX7 you install. I installed a Mazda 12AX7 for it’s clarity and good gain. With my LP’s through the Goblin I get that fat hollow neck tone, snappy teli like middle tones, and a great clear bridge tone with just the right amount of bite. For 6V6's the EH’s sound pretty good, but I’ve tried RCA brown base, Mazda, but Brimare 6V6 GTY, sound amazing. It’s like night and day. So good pre-amp tubes made a huge tone difference. I’ve these same pre-map tubes in a Kingsnake with amazing results as well. I prefer the Alltone speakers over the Jensen Neo

 

[Jon Silberman]

Originally posted by porterburst
Don’t know about the Hellhounds, but one things for sure: Played with various Strats, and Historic Les Pauls including a Y2K 59 Re, Duane and Dickey sig LP: With the Revered Gobin 5/15 nos tubes made a clear and obvious difference in tone for me period. 50's RCA long black plate in V1 gave the Goblin a fat smoky tone that is sweet with a nice round bottom, cool mids, and snappy but sweet high end. With a 60's RCA's the tone is rich but more scooped and cleaner in tone. Great hollow LP neck tones! With a Tung Sol 5751 in V1 you get good gain and super sweet high end. With a Mullard in V2 and a LP, you get great honk and sweetness with clarity. In the phase I have a Mullard box plate that keep every thik sweet and clear with that great Mullard gain. In the reverb driver the tone of the reverb and overall gain and high end is defiantly effected by the type and brand 12AX7 you install. I installed a Mazda 12AX7 for it’s clarity and good gain. With my LP’s through the Goblin I get that fat hollow neck tone, snappy teli like middle tones, and a great clear bridge tone with just the right amount of bite. For 6V6's the EH’s sound pretty good, but I’ve tried RCA brown base, Mazda, but Brimare 6V6 GTY, sound amazing. It’s like night and day. So good pre-amp tubes made a huge tone difference. I’ve these same pre-map tubes in a Kingsnake with amazing results as well. I prefer the Alltone speakers over the Jensen Neo

We'll just have to agree to disagree about the preamp tubes - though perhaps we might just be comparing applies (6V6 Goblins) to oranges (6L6 HHs) but I'm certainly a fellow fan of the Alltone. P.S. The tone stack is voiced differently on the KS from the HH, that may be relevant here, too.

 

[fr8_trane]

The tone stack is voiced differently on the KS from the HH, that may be relevant here, too.

How so? Have you seen a schematic or did you just open 'em and dig around. I was under the impression that the only difference between the amps was the output section.

 

[Jon Silberman]

Component values have been changed to yield this result per the Rev FAQ:

- Modified pre-amp gain structure. The Kingsnake has less pre-amp gain in the low frequencies. This means the low notes distort less. This contributes to more clean headroom, tighter low end and smoother overdrive at medium to high volume.

http://www.reverenddirect.com/reverend/faq.html#amplifiers

I regret that, while yes, I have "opened my chassis and dug around," by prior agreement, I cannot be any more specific now than to quote you the FAQ.

But I can be more specific as to this:

I (when I say I, I mean my tech, Pete Cage, at my request) added a bright switch to my HH (50 pf cap):

...made the Schizo (US/UK) function footswitchable:

.. connected the Schizo circuit to a trim pot to be able to dial in exactly the amount of mid-boost I desire:

... and afterwards, replaced the thick/waxy Marshall-style salt-'n'-pepper grillcloth with Fender-style gold weave:

I've also tested all sorts of tubes in it including new stock and NOS preamp tubes of many brands and gain levels.

I.e., I have a bit of experience with this particular amp consistent with it being my #1 "grab and carry" amp.

 

[Jon Silberman]

Originally posted by fr8_trane
Anyway the Kingsnake is a good amp in your price range. I found it a little bass shy, sterile and stringy compared to the lush clean clean tones I get from my SFDR.

P.S. The HH and KS both do well with relatively gainy preamp tubes to "open up the sound." That's why Naylor uses EH 12AX7s, they're about as high gain 12AX7s as you'll find these days and the amp is voiced for them.

Sterile is a funny word. One man's sterile is another man's accurate headroom. Same with stringy versus lush, particularly when applied to DRs where one man's lush character is another man's ratty mush.

Myself, I like both sounds which is why I own 2 6L6-based amps - the HH and a one-off Cage hand-wired Bandmaster cone re-built into a Fender Blues Deluxe combo - and a 6V6-based amp (Tone King Continental).

Now the Bandmaster is often called sterile by folks heavily into that elusive quality some call "swirl" - I have a friend who calls them "Bland-masters" - but that's part of the appeal as well.

EDIT: Sheesh, I typed all this out just a moment ago, hit post (at least I meant to!), and it disappeared. So I'll sum it all up quickly. Folks used to Fender amp bass controls sometimes don't like how the Revs are set up. On Fenders, there's a ton of bass at hand, most of which isn't usable with the volume above 3-4 (where do YOU set the bass level on your DR when the volume's at 4?) and some of which you'd never want to tap even at bedroom levels. The Rev bass controls yield much less total bass overall but the taper is more gradual. Especially at louder volume levels, the Rev bass control is, to me, more flexible than a Fender control. At bedroom levels, you may want to just max the bass control out but, as always, forget about what the control says the level is (0, 12, or anywhere in between), just set it however the amp sounds best.

 

[fr8_trane]

Regarding the KS preamp, I though you were implying that there was a difference between the KS and Goblin (I don't think there is). I am aware of the differences between the HH and the KS. My bad.

Regarding fender/kingsnake and 6v6/6l6 tonal differences everything you said is valid. Its funny but I always thought my buddies BF bandmaster sounded sterile compared to my SF Bassman and I still attribute that to the extra gain the the Bassman has. That said I find most old fenders to be "mushy" when cranked because of the minimal bass rolloff in the preamp and the tube rectifier in most models. Of course this excess bass is a major reason why Fender clean is "lush" IMO. My DR with a weber Zcap (SS recto that allows me to keep the 6V6's) and alltone speaker sounds fantastic clean or breaking up. These 2 mods tighten the bass and transient response without messing with the preamp (although I may do that in the future). The KS was obviously voiced to provide a sort of midway point between Fender and Marshall (one mans "tight low end" is anothers "thin low end"). I give the KS high points for grind but find the clean lacking and to me both are symptomatic of the reduced bass. YMMV

 

[Jon Silberman]

Originally posted by fr8_trane
... one mans "tight low end" is anothers "thin low end" ...

And not only with amplifiers!

Thanks for the clarifications, fr8.

P.S. It's interesting, with the Schizo trim pot set low on my modded HH, in UK mode, the amp actually sounds "tweedy." Seriously, it really does. I don't know why Naylor never added one to the amp himself, that + footswitching makes the amp considerably more versatile for only a few $$ worth of extra parts. No, it's not true channel switching but as an onboard boost it's quite usable.