review Seismic SAX-12M-PW 12" powered coaxial monitor vs RCF VS CLR

MaxTwang

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3,028
As Jim stated, horses for courses.....and I have needs for multiple levels of gear, as he does. Seismic could suit the need for my (inevitably) beer soaked front vocal wedge.
Although you may not take gigs like that.....like it or not....that is what is out there in the early 20's-mid 30's bar crowd. Sucks to watch gear get trashed...but it does. When the drunk bachelorette party wants to get on stage and sing a Journey tune...we let them, because that's how we pay the bills.
It's not always the beer but the effect of the beer on an audience member that causes problems. It's amazing how long the 'falling down' lasts when someone is 'falling down drunk'.


I'm currently using an ELX112p and would like something with a bit more clarity and dispersion (but also needs to be as loud). Honestly, I'm just not sure if anything out there is enough of an improvement without getting into the $1k+ range. Are there any sub-$1K powered coaxial FRFR solutions that are worth it? I've been looking for reviews on the Mackie DLMs but haven't found much.
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/amps-cabs/77353-so-i-got-clr-try.html

And some background:
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/amps-cabs/70771-got-dlm8s-today.html


MaxTwang, I would say that your contention about high end gear mattering more to the home/studio user than the live performer doesn't always hold true.
My intent was to straddle the line between satire and sincerity.
 
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Jay Mitchell

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5,648
If you have used this combination (at a paying gig, as you stated), then in fact it IS an alternative (being that you chose it for that gig).
Incorrect. Limited utility in special circumstances does not make one rig a viable alternative - the phrase I used - for another. My "A" rig can do any gig/session/rehearsal I ever do and enable me to produce the best possible results. My other rigs can't. That means that they are not viable alternatives to the "A" rig.

I don't need - nor does anyone else - an Axe-Fx, a CLR, or one of my company's powered monitors to do a gig. I can get good results with much less expensive gear. That does not mean - as kmanick erroneously stated - that the difference between budget and premium alternatives is "negligible," however. That is the basis for my response.

When the drunk bachelorette party wants to get on stage and sing a Journey tune...we let them,
Then every piece of gear you have on stage is at risk. A drunk can stagger into your mic stand, equipment rack, etc., and knock it over, set a drink on your mixing console (ask me how I know about that one), trip over a cable or stand and bring one of your guitars or an expensive horn crashing to the stage. Your front line is no more at risk than any other stage equipment under those circumstances. That is why I won't allow members of the audience on stage. That was non-negotiable even during the 8 years during which I made a living playing. It's no different than a mechanic not allowing customers to use his tools.

If you really need a low-dollar wedge for the reason you state, then you also need a cheap modeler, backline, mics, PA gear, etc., for exactly the same reason. Yet somehow the comparison has been arbitrarily restricted to speakers, and the guy who writes the review doesn't even use FRFR. Hmmmm....
 

LqdSndDist

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Messages
1,336
I'm currently using an ELX112p and would like something with a bit more clarity and dispersion (but also needs to be as loud). Honestly, I'm just not sure if anything out there is enough of an improvement without getting into the $1k+ range. Are there any sub-$1K powered coaxial FRFR solutions that are worth it? I've been looking for reviews on the Mackie DLMs but haven't found much.

Yamaha's DX line isn't bad for marginally more than your EV's. Not sure there would be a huge difference though, so after you factor in the cost of upgrading, and selling your EV's, might end up be a bit of an expense for what you get, but they are pretty nice sounding units

Even the 10" sounds pretty good to my ears. I think they beat Alto's, Mackie's, EV's etc for around the same price/market
 

kmanick

Supporting Member
Messages
325
"That does not mean - as kmanick erroneously stated - that the difference
between budget and premium alternatives is "negligible," however. That is the
basis for my response."
For the difference in cost? I stick by my statement, obviously the CLR is a
superior product, but for a home player is it $700.00 better? Sure didn't sound
that way to me, and that is where my negligible statement comes from.
I'm not playing at gig volume in my home studio (which is where the CLR really shined against the Seismic and the RCF) at lower volumes we got them to sound very, very similar.
I also find it rather interesting that you feel you need to come into a thread like this and defend your product against a budget alternative???
I'm actually a little surprised you're allowed to to come into a user forum and do this since you are connected to one of the products.
 

wcfields

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1,636
Not everyone needs or can afford CLR's despite what some people post here. Lots of good options can be found for half the price or less that suit the needs of MOST people..
 

kevinpmajka

Supporting Member
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281
Might be good option for leaving at a practice space or church. I'm too cash poor to snag a CLR at the moment.
 

dmbandtimmy

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1,317
I have an Alto 12 that sounds great. Anxious to get my CLR though, but you're right. There are many great alternatives that won't break the bank.

If you get the axe, Foot controller and CLR you are looking at a little over 4k. Of course I've spent way more than that on gear over the years, but that's a lot of coin if you want to add the axe to your existing set of gear. As it is I'm dropping 2,650 for the Kemper and CLR and hopefully soon I'll be able to get a foot controller for it. That will be over 3k. So I definitely understanding needing to save in some areas...

What made me invest in the CLR is that I should be able to use it for years to come and I can use it in a lot of different applications.
 

wcfields

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1,636
I also have an Alto 12, and agree that it sounds really good.....and I paid $300 for it.
 

Jay Mitchell

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5,648
I also find it rather interesting that you feel you need to come into a thread like this and defend your product
If that were what I were doing, you might have a point. All I've done is point out contradictions among your own statements. You've done nothing to clarify, nor have you explained why a person who doesn't even play FRFR bothers to review FRFR products...
 

BBN

Member
Messages
15
Then every piece of gear you have on stage is at risk. A drunk can stagger into your mic stand, equipment rack, etc., and knock it over, set a drink on your mixing console (ask me how I know about that one), trip over a cable or stand and bring one of your guitars or an expensive horn crashing to the stage. Your front line is no more at risk than any other stage equipment under those circumstances.
Close....but not entirely correct.

Nobody is allowed to walk back past the drum set. My rule, and I enforce it.
My PA rack is nestled back there....along with my Axe Fx.
The upside is, no girls are interested in walking back there because they're only concerned with standing at the front of the stage so everyone in the club can watch them dance and sing like clowns.
But I will agree that guitars are in jeopardy....which is why I gig with parts-casters I build, instead of my Tom Andersons.

Budget gear has its place. And the seismics are a decent example of budget gear.

'Negligible' difference is the opinion of the user....and can be very much based on what the user is doing with that gear.

For me, Listening environment will make the difference negligible or not negligible.
In my quiet office, with my Axe...a CLR or RCF is required.....and the difference in that situation (vs. a seismic) is not negligible.
But on a loud stage with drums bashing in my ears, and just needing some vocals and guitar bleed...the difference in that situation is negligible.
 

hammer84

Member
Messages
90
If that were what I were doing, you might have a point. All I've done is point out contradictions among your own statements. You've done nothing to clarify, nor have you explained why a person who doesn't even play FRFR bothers to review FRFR products...
Kmanick made some good observations and Jay did a good job to point out the details that make a difference. You pay a premium to get that last 20-30 % in almost everything you buy. Cars, TVs, Cameras, etc.

If it is good enough for what you need and desire then great, saying something is a better value period is just subjective in this realm.

I have been thru the budget iterations and now I sit with a Kemper and one ( soon to be two, come on UPS man ! ) CLRs and I couldn't be happier sitting in my modest home studio playing 80's covers to my dogs :)
 

kmanick

Supporting Member
Messages
325
Look all I did was state that for $299.00 this thing sounds very good. and Jay you have no idea what I play you don't know anything about me.
We have done several side by side FRFR tests at my home in the last few months. I also did not say this was a better option, this thing may fall apart on day 31 , that is yet to be seen. What we found here , and it was not just me in the room , is that these are a viable budget option. if you can't afford $1,000.00 per cab and are not playing at gig volumes 2 of these will get the job nicely done.
someone reviewed a product directly against one you are affiliated with and you come into the thread and start offering suggestions on how to save $$ in other areas?
why you even entered this thread is interesting to me or should I say obvious to me.
 

Jay Mitchell

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5,648
and Jay you have no idea what I play you don't know anything about me.
I know from many statements you have made on the FAS forum that you play through guitar cabs and that you have never gotten satisfaction from FRFR systems. That, combined with a specific dishonest personal slur you posted, leads me to believe that there may be an undisclosed agenda here. If there is not, a simple explanation would go a long way towards clearing the air. In case there's any doubt, I acknowledge that you have every right to post your opinion, just as I have every right to ask the questions I'm asking.

I also did not say this was a better option,
A reasonable person could read your characterization of the product as a "giant-killer" as a belief in at least its equivalence with the premium speakers you auditioned.
 
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turbolx5oh

Member
Messages
82
Anybody know what speaker and amp are used in the CLR? I've made myself several cabinets over the years and cloning one of these might be a fun project.
 

Jay Mitchell

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5,648
Here's a tip for those who are legitimately concerned about beer ingress into floor wedges. Cover the speaker with a trash bag. Get the thinnest ones - I think they are available as thin as .5 mil - and the effect on sound quality will be undetectable. This works with your "A," "B," or "C" rigs. It's also effective if you find yourself on an outdoor stage in inclement weather. If esthetics are an issue, you might be able to find a company that will make custom bags with your band's logo on them....
 

turbolx5oh

Member
Messages
82
Yes. I can't say whether Atomic will sell them to you, though. You'll have to contact them.
LOL.. You had me at "Yes" and then I lost interest with the rest of your post.

To the rest of TPG - Does Fractal make their own speakers and amps for their cabinets or source them from somewhere else? I was just curious to know what they are using.

Disclaimer: I don't work for or have I ever worked for any kind of music related company. I'm not a professional musician and honestly don't want to be. I love playing the guitar and am an electronics hobbiest and play out 3-4 gigs a year. Most importantly, I don't make the kind of money I would need to casually spend $3500 on a Axe/FX / CLR rig or I would own one. I'm just looking for a fun "see if I can" project to get me out of my wife's hair for a couple of weekends without spending $1000 doing it. I have an 11R and an Alto TS112A and love both of these pieces of gear. Anyone tried the Alto SXM112-A?

For the record kmanick, I like the way you think! Keep the posts/threads coming.

You all please feel free to continue with your internet fight.

<subscribed>....
 


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