review Seismic SAX-12M-PW 12" powered coaxial monitor vs RCF VS CLR

BBN

Member
Messages
15
Here's a tip for those who are legitimately concerned about beer ingress into floor wedges. Cover the speaker with a trash bag. Get the thinnest ones - I think they are available as thin as .5 mil - and the effect on sound quality will be undetectable. This works with your "A," "B," or "C" rigs. It's also effective if you find yourself on an outdoor stage in inclement weather. If esthetics are an issue, you might be able to find a company that will make custom bags with your band's logo on them....
Great tip, and I should have mentioned that we do this on the crazy nights.
 

kmanick

Supporting Member
Messages
325
Look I did not come in hear to start a fight. I posted a review of 3 products one of which you are directly affiliated with. you are the one that came in and started to deflect away from saving money on the cab and directly going after the "modeling" unit as an alternative place to save money.
My review is all personal opinion, Jesus I even stated that I thought that CLR was superior ...if you can afford it.
there is no undisclosed agenda here .....at all,
I am not affiliated with any companies that make musical gear, I am a retired former gigging musician who now just palys and writes at at home and occasionally jams with some local friends. that's it
If anyone seems to have an agenda it's you. You see a positive review of a competitive product and you need to chime right in. and I have no idea what personal slur you are referring to. I did not slight "your" product in the slightest, I reviewed a viable "budget" option that was brought to my attention, that's it period.:beer
I'm even on the freaking wait list for a CLR LOL!

This will be my last post in this thread as I find this all very childish.

I know from many statements you have made on the FAS forum that you play through guitar cabs and that you have never gotten satisfaction from FRFR systems. That, combined with a specific dishonest personal slur you posted, leads me to believe that there may be an undisclosed agenda here. If there is not, a simple explanation would go a long way towards clearing the air. In case there's any dobut, I acknowledge that you have every right to post your opinion, just as I have every right to ask the questions I'm asking.

A reasonable person could read your characterization of the product as a "giant-killer" as a belief in at least its equivalence with the premium speakers you auditioned.
 

MKB

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
8,067
Thanks to the OP for posting the review. IMHO there is a point where the cost of a piece of gear vs. how it sounds and works makes it desirable to have. It's true that the top of the line modeler FRFR is wonderful in sound and feel, but is it worth 2-3X or more the cost in my rig and for my uses?

This line of thought is the entire reason I started using modelers. For many years now the versatility and ease of use of a modeler on a gig (i.e. just bringing a Line 6 XT floor unit to a gig and plugging it direct, use a standard wedge as a monitor) gave it the edge over several amps and tons of individual stompboxes. The tone wasn't quite there, but the other benefits were worth the tradeoff. The improvement of modeling tones in subsequent generations has only been sweet icing on the cake.

So if someone makes a good cheap monitor, and it sounds good enough and is cheap enough, I might buy one if it is needed. Reviews like this are very helpful to get an initial idea if the device is suitable for further investigation.
 

DRS

Member
Messages
11,187
I too appreciate the OPs posts. I could very well be interested in 90% of the tone for 30% of the money.
 

jimfist

Member
Messages
1,528
I too appreciate the OPs posts. I could very well be interested in 90% of the tone for 30% of the money.
Are you talking about 90% of the tone in relation to the CLR active wedges? If so, then...errr...ummm...I dunno as I'd be that generous to a Seismic product without already having done a true A/B comparison in a real world auditioning environment (whatever it may be). If you have, then of course you're entitled to your opinion. Personally, honestly, I just don't think the Seismic stuff is all that great. Bang for buck/low volume/limited function great, but otherwise when evaluated against solid known commodity gear, bang for the buck is the best thing it has going for it. YMMV.

Don't get me wrong...at 30% of the cost, there is a LOT of wiggle room financially and a lot to be hopeful for, but the 90% assessment may be just a tad generous for the Seismic. If you never plan on affording a CLR, then it's all a moot point anyway, right? JMHO.
 

JPenn

Member
Messages
1,801
and here i thought this thread was dead lol. none of the experts even answered my question. guess they were too busy :)
 

Jay Mitchell

Member
Messages
5,648
To the rest of TPG - Does Fractal make their own speakers and amps for their cabinets
Atomic is not Fractal. At this juncture, Fractal does not sell speakers or cabinets, although I have no idea what their future plans in this area might be.
 

mattball826

Member
Messages
20,818
seismic found a mass production amp and speaker. probably similar to the kustom powered units. the cab mass produced isnt that much in cost either.

seismic- figure $60-90 speaker, $65 for the internal amp. the rest is cab, hardware etc and import labor. they probably make $50 or so off each one.

atomic- idk but best guess. figure $220 for the driver. $175 for the power amp. the rest for cab build, labor, design costs, and overhead and any built in $ amt for warranty repair coverage.

ballpark guesses.
 

Jay Mitchell

Member
Messages
5,648
atomic- idk but best guess. figure $220 for the driver.
There's no point in speculation about items such as this, but I will once again correct one part that has been publicly disclosed many times already: the CLR uses two drivers, a woofer and a high frequency compression driver. These are separate parts, not a combined chassis.
 

jimfist

Member
Messages
1,528
Regarding the Seismic passive 15" coax wedges: I'd like to amend my previous statement
I just don't think the Seismic stuff is all that great. Bang for buck/low volume/limited function great, but otherwise when evaluated against solid known commodity gear, bang for the buck is the best thing it has going for it. YMMV.
If you run plenty of clean power into them (even in "passive" mode with the internal passive crossover network), these can get pretty loud without totally crapping the bed, so strike the "low volume" part of that statement. However, the question is whether you like the way they sound at higher volume levels - or at any volume level for that matter. My most accurate summary at this point would be: they can get loud, and they work.

Given that the internal crossover network is probably nothing special, you can also bypass it and biamp these wedges via the 4-lead Neutrik connector. This, along with some EQ/processing, would probably yield the best results in terms of tone, clarity (esp. at loud volumes), and maximum SPL.

I've not used them long enough to see how they hold up over repeated heavy use. That is the next test TBD. So, up to this point, they are an OK sounding general purpose full range cabinet. Not going to displace my CLRs, that's for sure. Unless they fall apart in a month, this particular Seismic 15" coaxial passive is exactly what I've been saying all along: good bang for the buck...no more, no less.
 

turbolx5oh

Member
Messages
82
seismic found a mass production amp and speaker. probably similar to the kustom powered units. the cab mass produced isnt that much in cost either.

seismic- figure $60-90 speaker, $65 for the internal amp. the rest is cab, hardware etc and import labor. they probably make $50 or so off each one.

atomic- idk but best guess. figure $220 for the driver. $175 for the power amp. the rest for cab build, labor, design costs, and overhead and any built in $ amt for warranty repair coverage.

ballpark guesses.
It wouldn't surprise me if the Atomic drivers were $60-$90 each though.
 

stratzrus

Philadelphia Jazz, Funk, and R&B
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
20,738
Just out of curiosity, have you done any shootouts between your Axe-Fx and, say, a Zoom G3, in a search for a "giant-killer" in that arena? There's a lot more money to be saved there than there is in the realm of powered monitors. You could potentially replace a $2300 modeler with a sub-$160 one.
I've been stuck in a hotel since Saturday so I picked up a G3 for headphone practice. I can see using this thing with my CLR once I get it dialed in.

I never wanted an Axe FX floorboard due to the "drunken spillage" thing but I'd gladly risk damage to the G3. If I can dial it in well enough I may use it as a backup.


...if I was to start gigging again and use a modeling system it would the the Axe II and the CLR(s) as a backline, the Seismic in front of me, for the main reason is to save a $1,000.00 wedge from getting beer etc spilled on it (too stressful for me, and others have also stated similar concerns).
Of course the real solution to this is not to play in places that serve alcohol. Many musicians can't imagine it but my life changed so much for the better, and the audience was so much more appreciative of the music, once I stopped playing in bars.
 

kmanick

Supporting Member
Messages
325
Regarding the Seismic passive 15" coax wedges: I'd like to amend my previous statement

If you run plenty of clean power into them (even in "passive" mode with the internal passive crossover network), these can get pretty loud without totally crapping the bed, so strike the "low volume" part of that statement. However, the question is whether you like the way they sound at higher volume levels - or at any volume level for that matter. My most accurate summary at this point would be: they can get loud, and they work.

Given that the internal crossover network is probably nothing special, you can also bypass it and biamp these wedges via the 4-lead Neutrik connector. This, along with some EQ/processing, would probably yield the best results in terms of tone, clarity (esp. at loud volumes), and maximum SPL.

I've not used them long enough to see how they hold up over repeated heavy use. That is the next test TBD. So, up to this point, they are an OK sounding general purpose full range cabinet. Not going to displace my CLRs, that's for sure. Unless they fall apart in a month, this particular Seismic 15" coaxial passive is exactly what I've been saying all along: good bang for the buck...no more, no less.
Jim I'd like to get together with you at some point so you can hear the powered version of these. Jay was really surprised at the difference, he was not impressed the the Passive 15" he had (damaged? maybe, I didn't hear it) I may try a 15" powered as well when they restock. Those pictures you posted have me a little intrigued to see how much of a difference there is between the 2 good or bad.
I've been playing the crap out of this....so far I'm still pretty impressed.
 

jimfist

Member
Messages
1,528
kmanick, I'm loaning Jay my Seismic 15" passives tonight. I think he originally got the 12" passive IIRC, and it had visible damage. We both suspect that perhaps it took a nasty hit which possibly fouled up the internal components as well. So, I'm hesitant to say what is really the case until after Jay gives these a whirl tonight, and then we should have our answer, one way or another.

I'd be thrilled to get together for a shootout sometime with you and Jay. PM me or let Jay know (he's got my contact ph/email). I love this kind of stuff!

As per my previous post, last night I gave them a good listening with vocals as the first source. Though these aren't the best sounding speaker I've ever heard, they aren't the worst either. + points for being small footprint, relatively lightweights (sorry, but for me anything 45lbs or under still qualifies, lucky for me, LOL), coaxial, can take a fair amount of power, and are biamp-able. If the sonic gold standard is a 10, then these are a 5 out of the box, and perhaps as good as a 6.5-7 with enough processing, at best. It is all I can do to remind myself not to be emotionally influenced by the price of these things. Price to performance is very good, IMO.
 

kmanick

Supporting Member
Messages
325
will do :) waiting on some "re stocking" to happen.

"It is all I can do to remind myself not to be emotionally influenced by the price of these things. Price to performance is very good, IMO."

this is exactly where I am with this thing. I'd love to have a CLR for more than a couple of hours and really do a more in depth comparison (I'd like Xitone 1X12 as well ).
 


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