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Right now: Is Eleven Rack a steal or dying

kleydj13

Member
Messages
1,607
I've seen the prices of used Eleven Racks start to fall below $400 and I'm wondering if it could be a good fit for me. I had an HD500 for over a year. It was good but not great. I'm back to tubes for now, but I miss the advantages of modelers (don't need volume, same sounds for recording/live, portability, etc...). I currently have a Zoom G3 and am loving it for effects and practice, but don't foresee it bearing the brunt as an all in one. Additionally, a friend who I play with a lot at church is rocking an Eleven Rack and I've been pretty impressed with his tones. I will likely be able to give it a test run some time in the next week at his place, but I still have questions.

Looking at the Eleven Rack, it seems to be in an interesting place in the market right now. It is a little bit older, and Axe FX/Kemper have pushed the envelope further ahead on the high end. Avid also seems to have given up on supporting the unit, which certainly seems like a negative when you look at how the POD HD series and Axe FX seem to improve bit by bit with each firmware update.

But in turn those negatives seem to be pushing down the price. Also with something at the end of its life cycle it usually is 'mature' - so you don't have to deal with waiting for bug fixes. You know what you're going to get.

So, I'm wondering how you guys perceive the Eleven Rack as it sits right now. The prices seem low to me, and I anticipate it to be a step up from the HD500/G3. I recognize I would also need to get a midi controller, but I currently have a pretty nice pair of headphones - so a monitor is not 100% required right now.

Is it a good deal for $500-ish (11r + controller {though this would still be useful with other modelers}) even if it may be considered aging technology and never gets another firmware update? Or are the prices low because it isn't as viable with the current competition?
 

suckamc

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,610
It's still as good as it gets for Marshalls, and the black mini (a Princeton, I think) is maybe my favorite model ever in a modeler (I've owned every big modeler). That one was part f the expansion pack so make sure you get one with the pack.
 

Gasp100

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
22,504
Right now: Is Eleven Rack a steal or dying = BOTH

Still a great piece of versatile gear to be had for cheap nowadays (especially if you don't use ProTools). If you need to the extra 5% it's going to cost (KPA or AxeFX II), but the 11R is really a great piece of kit. I think it's a shame there is no "offcial" word on a stance of support for this going forward from Avid.
 

AZG

Member
Messages
1,608
I think it's a shame there is no "offcial" word on a stance of support for this going forward from Avid.
:agree
Avid has said several times recently that the product is not dead, but they also have not committed to do anything to improve the product. If they want to keep people from jumping ship, or even attract new customers, they better announce some concrete updates soon. Nevertheless, IMO it is the best sounding modeler available under the Kemper and Axe2 and is a steal at current prices.
 

GM Arts

Member
Messages
113
So for "right now" it is what it is: an excellent modeller, probably in the top 3 available. IMHO its main advantage is it's simplicity and the main disadavantage that you'll need significant external high-cut if using FRFR or sending diriect to FOH (the cab IRs don't cut it IMHO, pun intended).
 

X-Mann

Member
Messages
2,283
I own one so it's only natural to LOVE & promote what you purchased....Right???

Having said that.......I look at it like this......

If your buying to get into digital recording for the very 1st time & you know no other DAW yet then it's the most amazing product on the planet!!!! In fact, it could change your world & will make you a better player & musician too......

It also has an amazing user base over at the eleven rack presets forum with tons of FREE Rigs......

You have to go into this with the thought that there will be NO new updates or expansion packs too.....Nothing has been promised at all & the small hints are weak at best......

The tones to tape are stellar & way easy to get.....I love this product!!!!!!!

I think it's weak for live use in several ways that are well documented......I use it with a GCP & most issues go away, but I'd save up & buy the Axe Fx if that was my goal.....

Do NOT buy this to play out live through a regular guitar cab or through an amp........I'm not saying that you can't, I just saying you won't be happy.....That's all.....

Playing it through an FRFR speaker is the way to go & very satisfying though.......

Good luck & just keep doing your research & read between the lines with all the opinions too......

Peace! X-Mann
 

B Money

Member
Messages
5,907
I bought a new Eleven Rack recently, after looking at used units that either didn't include ProTools, or came with the older PT8 DAW. Ultimately I decided to buy new in order to get PT10, despite reading all the speculation that Eleven Rack has been abandoned by Avid. I got a great deal from an ebay dealer, and paid only a couple hunny more than a used unit.

I am very happy with the sounds I'm getting out of the Eleven Rack. I'm still in the "tweaking" phase but I am constantly coming across great tones. One of the attributes I like best about it is the connected feeling, it actually feels like playing a real amp. I don't have an experience with the AX-FX, Kemper, or HD stuff so I can't make a comparison, but based on it's own merits, the Eleven Rack is still a serious piece of gear capable of putting out great tones.
Factor in ProTools and you've got a potent combo.
 

Will Chen

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
6,699
Look at it this way. As long as it powers up its not dieing. If it can deliver tones you enjoy (the unit has a great many fans, I've never tried it personally) then you're getting in at a fantastic price point. And really, its at the tail end of a product's life cycle where the real bargains occur. Paying less dosn't make the unit any less capable.

Many seem to be addicted to firmware updates. One the one hand, its exciting to get new features on your device, but on the other the early purchasers are really paying to be beta testers. Personally, I long for the days when companies would release a fully finished product and provide 1 or 2 bug fixes. I never want to make purchasing decisions based on "if" something will be added. Unfortunately, that's the path many companies are taking these days.
 

rob2001

Member
Messages
16,929
Look at it this way. As long as it powers up its not dieing. If it can deliver tones you enjoy (the unit has a great many fans, I've never tried it personally) then you're getting in at a fantastic price point. And really, its at the tail end of a product's life cycle where the real bargains occur. Paying less dosn't make the unit any less capable.

Many seem to be addicted to firmware updates. One the one hand, its exciting to get new features on your device, but on the other the early purchasers are really paying to be beta testers. Personally, I long for the days when companies would release a fully finished product and provide 1 or 2 bug fixes. I never want to make purchasing decisions based on "if" something will be added. Unfortunately, that's the path many companies are taking these days.
Agree, and at that point the only thing to wonder is how long will it last. From everything I've read on modelers in this price range I think the 11R would work best for me and I'm glad to see them at reasonable prices.
 

charley

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,368
I really like the 11R both at home and live. It is a step up from the HD500, and stresses quality over quantity.....not many fx.

Live, I like it, but it is cumbersome since you also need a foot controller. But, it will adapt to anything you plug it into with some simple tweaks.....it isn't that hard to use.
 

rob2001

Member
Messages
16,929
I really like the 11R both at home and live. It is a step up from the HD500, and stresses quality over quantity.....not many fx.

Live, I like it, but it is cumbersome since you also need a foot controller. But, it will adapt to anything you plug it into with some simple tweaks.....it isn't that hard to use.

Thats what has me on the line for one of these. I'm an amp guy at heart and I love my amps. But I also use and employ modeling in various ways. I don't want or need all the features most modelers seem to have. Give me a handful of good sounds that are easy to deal with on a practical level and I'm a happy guy. I get effects from other outboard devices.
 

chrishurley

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
682
Many seem to be addicted to firmware updates. One the one hand, its exciting to get new features on your device, but on the other the early purchasers are really paying to be beta testers. Personally, I long for the days when companies would release a fully finished product and provide 1 or 2 bug fixes. I never want to make purchasing decisions based on "if" something will be added. Unfortunately, that's the path many companies are taking these days.
As I'm reading this, the impression is that we're dealing with a bunch of buggy, half-baked products that should have been held back for a few months until they could be finished. I can't really think of any products that fit that bill- maybe someone will correct me.

The axe-fx standard, ultra and II have always been complete and rock solid as long as I can remember. There have been a couple of updates to fix bugs but the vast and overwhelming majority of the updates have not been to deliver on the original advertised product that had been previously compromised by bugs or unfinished features- the updates deliver major new features that make the product even better than before.

I don't remember hearing how the Zoom G3 was unfinished and/or riddled with bugs prior to the release of the update- it just added new features to extend its life in the market.

The Eleven Rack expansion- same thing. The product worked fine and did what it was supposed to do. The expansion just made it more.

I don't see how any of those things are unfortunate- particularly in the case of the axe-fx where the updates generally deliver major new features.

In the past, products were released and then stood still. That's no longer the case and I think that's great. I agree that you should buy based on what it does today, but I don't mind the gravy of getting new things I wasn't expecting.
 

Couloirman

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
869
I think it is both a steal, and dying. The good thing though, is that it will keep you entertained at least long enough until the Axe-FX 3 comes out :) That has been my plan all along. I got the Eleven Rack to make sure I really liked using a rack processor with my computer and if I still am enjoying it when the Axe 3 comes out, then it will be upgrade time.
 

kleydj13

Member
Messages
1,607
Many seem to be addicted to firmware updates. One the one hand, its exciting to get new features on your device, but on the other the early purchasers are really paying to be beta testers. Personally, I long for the days when companies would release a fully finished product and provide 1 or 2 bug fixes. I never want to make purchasing decisions based on "if" something will be added. Unfortunately, that's the path many companies are taking these days.
I think this is at the heart of my question. I see both sides. I've had experience with the HD500 and Zoom G3 where firmware updates boosted the unit's value. Not just fixing bugs, but adding functionality, models, or options that really add to the unit. Some of the post release amp models on the HD500 were my favorites that I used all the time. The 2.0 update for the G3 added 6 slots which has become invaluable as well as a few amp models that get a bulk of my use. I have no experience with a Fractal product, but it seems like the firmware update is a major reason why users are so satisfied with their products.

But on the other hand I see the 11R as a well rounded product. It has an expansion pack which provides some amp models that I would be keen to try. In terms of bugs and functionality it isn't lacking and in need of an update. The fact is that its current used price is only a fraction more than an HD500. I've probably dug through 100 threads in the last week comparing the two and about 80% thought 11R was an upgrade in terms of sound quality. I've got a G3 to fill in the gaps for any effects I might miss.

Ultimately firmware updates are nice, but not getting them doesn't seem to be a negative in my eyes.
 

Will Chen

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
6,699
As I'm reading this, the impression is that we're dealing with a bunch of buggy, half-baked products that should have been held back for a few months until they could be finished. I can't really think of any products that fit that bill- maybe someone will correct me.

The axe-fx standard, ultra and II have always been complete and rock solid as long as I can remember. There have been a couple of updates to fix bugs but the vast and overwhelming majority of the updates have not been to deliver on the original advertised product that had been previously compromised by bugs or unfinished features- the updates deliver major new features that make the product even better than before.

I don't remember hearing how the Zoom G3 was unfinished and/or riddled with bugs prior to the release of the update- it just added new features to extend its life in the market.

The Eleven Rack expansion- same thing. The product worked fine and did what it was supposed to do. The expansion just made it more.

I don't see how any of those things are unfortunate- particularly in the case of the axe-fx where the updates generally deliver major new features.

In the past, products were released and then stood still. That's no longer the case and I think that's great. I agree that you should buy based on what it does today, but I don't mind the gravy of getting new things I wasn't expecting.
Can't speak for the Axe. In the case of the G3, why on God's green earth would you release a product with only half the capabilities it was actually capable of (3 effects and constantly running out of juice vs 6 with seemingly no issue with memory)? the update also considerably changed the way some of the physical buttons worked on the unit (some are really even named incorrectly at this point). I bought the G3 and consequently sold it. When they added the additional features, I ended up buying a used one again as it is now more viable for me. I took a small lose on that deal. Not enough to get enraged over, but still. What not hold back and release the full fledged product?

Just sold my HD500 and the manner at which they've given some features to owners of the lower end products not featured in their top of the line floor board is crazy to me. The dreaded high pitch squeal many encountered. The ease at which one can overdrive the virtual signal path. Also, there were still a great many things which just didn't work like they should (bugs or features, whatever). They no longer indicate the actual bugs they're fixing in release notes, simply "various bug fixes".

There were many reports of bugs among the first Kemper owners such as aliasing when using modeled stomps, etc...

Giving away/selling a couple updates leads to expectations that a company will continue the practice as this thread indicates (remember how mad many Axe users were that the Ultra updates would be ending). Why should a product be considered dead when there are no longer new updates coming down the road? To me, that's more of an indication that the product set is mature and the unit can be viewed as complete. Weird world we're living in...
 

Capn Spanky

Member
Messages
263
I don't know if I'll ever buy a new modeler again after taking a bath on selling a couple of old ones. Seems the longer you wait, the better deal you can get on used. I guess it comes down to how patient you are.
 

Will Chen

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
6,699
I don't know if I'll ever buy a new modeler again after taking a bath on selling a couple of old ones. Seems the longer you wait, the better deal you can get on used. I guess it comes down to how patient you are.
Same thing with cars, appliances, smart phones, household electronics, almost anything...
 

birdie_in_texas

I can haz virgins?
Messages
1,653
The 11R rocks..! I have a G3 and it does not compare really as far as "tone" to the 11R..but I love my G3 also..

My soundcloud stuff is all made with the 11R..and I (and a few others) think it sounds good tone-wise..the playing might not be up to par, but at least it sounds good! hahahaahha :)


[SOUNDCLOUD]http://soundcloud.com/birdie_in_texas/birdie-in-blue-take-1[/SOUNDCLOUD]


I am hoping Avid does not abandon us 11R users!
 




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