RS guitarworks kit for an es-335 type – witch one? And some more…

Discussion in 'Luthier's Guitar & Bass Technical Discussion' started by GeorgeSunset, Dec 2, 2009.

  1. GeorgeSunset

    GeorgeSunset Member

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    Hello…
    Time to replace my electronics. I have heard a lot of good things about RS guitarworks electronics, and thought to by a kit. It’s a AS-83 (Ibanez).

    I think I will need short-shaft pots (sure I have to) but I’m also looking to replace the 3-way switch – but witch one would fit? (my thought is the one for the SG – right angle one)

    But how good are these switches? I mean in terms of radiointerference?

    Or would you say – forget about the switch – use the one you have?


    One other thing – I’m going to install a MASTER volume in the circuit (I have my reasons :crazy a master for both pick-ups) and would like to hear what value the pot should have. Know, I would like to have as little as possible frequency loss…
    Heard that 1M pot should do the job.



    I appreciate every opinion. Thank you
     
  2. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Member

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    Just get CTS 500KA pots from allparts and two nice caps (I like vitamin Q) sprague or better and a Switchcraft angle three way .This is as good as ANY RS kit and a lot cheaper .RS pots are just CTS anyway.
     
  3. in a little row

    in a little row Member

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    just to clarify, youll need mini-pots for that guitar...regular size pots will be a nightmare to install
     
  4. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Member

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    " No," full size, make a cardboard copy of where the holes are to hold everything in place while you wire it up and then tread it carefully through the F hole .
     
  5. Bob V

    Bob V Member

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    Looks like a big f-hole so regular pots shouldn't be a problem - look with a dental mirror (or a mechanic's inspection mirror) to see what's in there now and you might not need miniature pots. Also see if there's access through the bridge pickup cavity and you might be able to get everything in and out without scratching the binding on the f-hole.

    Keep in mind that this imported guitar might have metric pots in it to begin with. That means you might have to enlarge the holes in the top (with a reamer, gently, not with a drill) and you'll need different knobs because the knurling is different. You might prefer the imported pots that Stewart MacDonald carries.

    It's not really fair to suggest that RS guitarworks are "just regular CTS" pots because the CTS brand pots that many suppliers carry are nothing like these. They are not the doughnut-backed open-shell pots with shiny gold plating that some vendors sell (Warmoth for instance). Also they have brass shafts whereas some CTS pots have aluminum. Lastly they have the retainer ring so the pot doesn't fall apart when you press the knobs on (very important for a thinline guitar without a control cavity cover plate on the back, you can't support the pot inside while pressing the knob on). That's not even mentioning that RS carries a "superpot" with a special taper that's neither linear nor log, somewhere in between the two. If you notice that the volume drops abruptly at about 8 on the dial, then you might like the RS superpot instead of a traditional audio taper pot for the volume control. Incidentally Gibson has been using 300K linear pots for volume and 500K audio taper for tone (not everyone is a fan of that scheme but it works).

    If you're keeping score, my preference is for 500K superpots (or linear) in the volume position and 500K audio taper for tone pots with .022 uF cap on the bridge pickup and .010 or .015 on the neck (unless you like to go dark, jazzy, then .022's or even .047 would do).

    As for the toggle switch, they're not going to differ in terms of RF noise or hum, just in how robust they are. A new Switchcraft shorty vertical switch should work fine, but is only necessary if yours is wonky (again you may need to enlarge the hole).

    Also if rewiring you should consider getting some nice tinned braid coax cable like Gibson uses - I've seen some real garbage in the harnesses of imported guitars (not Ibanez necessarily).
     
  6. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Member

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    There are many types of CTS pots available and if you shop around you will find what you want without paying "RS" tax.
     
  7. RSRelic

    RSRelic Member

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    By your way of thinking buying a Chevy Caviler is as good as a Corvette.
    I'm not spamming in any way, but Allparts CTS pots are the cheapest pots CTS makes and to-date there is no other pot that they sell that is as specialized or as expensive as the SuperPot, and I don't care where you look you will not find our taper anywhere because I own that taper and the tooling it took to make it or another pot with a tolerance as tight as they do for us.
     
  8. GeorgeSunset

    GeorgeSunset Member

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    Well, standard one’s are mini pots.
    I chanced the complete wiring 2/3 years ago, but kept the standart pots. So I know I have to go trough the f-holes (se picture).
    I’m planning to incorporate a master volume under the bridged pickup to be able to make volume-sweep picking thingy as with a strat. So I thought, if I have to pull all that stuff out anyway, I can do other chances as well. People keep saying that the pot’s make a difference, and I am I the need of a project. I'm thinking about using wire from stewmac (the shielded single wire with pcv around it)

    Still in the planning phase, though.

    Thanks for all the reply’s!

    hm... looking at that old picture right now... are these not long-shaft pots?!?

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Member

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    I've fitted many of your super pots and also hundreds of CTS pots and if you get a regular 500KA brass shaft it will perform the same in practice, granted your tapper is slightly different (not better) but it depends on the level of gain you use as to whether it is advantageous or a handicap.
    The audio performance is no better either .I would use clearostats if I was looking for better audio performance . The thing about guitar is sounds good is good and accuracy is an audiophile way can actually be a disadvantage. This is why this industry relies so heavily on BS terms like Mojo and Voodoo when in fact snake oil is the order of the day (no disrespect meant to your licensed Chinese product.) Yes every thing makes a difference but your idea of better is not necessarily so.
     
  10. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Member

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    That's just it different is not always better.
     
  11. Bob V

    Bob V Member

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    You originally suggested that they were no different. Glad you backed off of that one.

    OK for the OP: they look like middle-length shafts! So you can use long shafts with the nuts adjusted to fit.

    As for the volume pot location, Andy Aledort is the guitarist currently touring with Dickey Betts and Great Southern and his Gibson ES335 has the neck volume knob relocated to the toggle switch position so it's near enough to the bridge for the pinkey volume swells. You might be able to fit a bushing on the pot to use the toggle switch location. Then try it partially wired and if it works, ream out the volume pot hole for the toggle switch.
     
  12. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Member

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    If you use high gain the standard 500KA has a far better taper than the super pot.
    Clarostats have HiFi performance and do not colour as you turn them .
     
  13. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Member

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    I still suggest that they are no better in terms of performance or longevity and therefor not worth paying extra for.(Which is what I said in the first place.)
     
  14. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Member

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    And your's are also just that. "opinions."
    This is a forum not a spam opportunity for RS.
    Your not really trying to say the RS pot is as transparent as the Claostat are you?:rotflmao
    This is guitar wiring and transparent is not the aim .
    The action of saturation (gain) makes the audio taper a better match in most (not all) cases.
     
  15. RSRelic

    RSRelic Member

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    So better materials, retainer rings, thicker carbon path, all brass wiper, tighter tolerance and the highest series of pots CTS makes don't make a better part than aluminum shaft, nylon wiper, silkscreened path, no retainer ring, 20% tolerance and the lowest series CTS makes? No to mention a taper that you might not think is better and work with "High Gain", but that taper was designed by me a musician of 30 years just for the volume of a guitar (not just a generic electrical part) and I think the guys from Black Stone Cherry, Iced Earth, Buck Cherry,Shinedown, Steve Stevens (Billy Idol), Nine inch nails and Stained who all swear by them know a little about gain.
     
  16. Ron Thorn

    Ron Thorn Gold Supporting Member

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    RS Superpots - I love them!
     
  17. JPF

    JPF Member

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    The combination of a vintage RS kit with a pair of WCR Darkbursts has literally transformed my LP into an extremely sensitive yet powerful instrument. I cannot recommend the RS pots too highly - they really have opened up and broadened the range of sounds I can coax out her, whether clean or overdriven. Do it!
     
  18. Bob V

    Bob V Member

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    You suggested they were the same as CTS pots from other sources.

    In case you need to be reminded.

    You obviously have the experience to know what you're talking about, but you don't always come across as , em, helpful. It's pretty much rule number one on any good forum to separate opinions from facts, and to be gracious when someone points out that you haven't done that.
     
  19. Eagle1

    Eagle1 Member

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    This one for a start is better than you say they make.
    http://www.wdmusic.co.uk/product/Premium_500k_Long_Shaft_Pot_10%_Tolerance_CTS500XL
    This is the best bang for buck pot end of .
    If you want overkill try this.
    http://www.banzaimusic.com/Alessandro-SP-500k-log-Guitar-Pot.html
     
  20. Jahn

    Jahn Listens to Johnny Marr, plays like John Denver Supporting Member

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    i just ordered some RS Superpots for my R8, having had a test run in another LP and being well pleased. They do seem to spin with more resistance than the stock pots, so if you're a pinky volume sweller (which I'm not) that's something to consider.
     

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