Rules for TGP Bedroom Amp Sharing?

Discussion in 'Builder's & Retailer's Forum' started by Steve Dallas, Jan 7, 2008.


  1. Steve Dallas

    Steve Dallas Supporting Member

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    How do we go about passing these amps around among TGP members? I have 3 basic concerns:

    1. That the amps won't vanish without a trace
    2. That the schematics won't end up on the internet
    3. That they won't be damaged

    I would like to start a list of people who want to try the Wrecktified amp and a separate list for the Black Face amp.

    What criteria should be out there for those who are on the list(s)?

    Must be a member of TGP for 6 months, know someone else on the board personally, have a minimum of 500 posts, not be a member of the secret amp forum, and not be a manufacturer? I dunno. I'm just throwing things around here. What do you guys think?
     
  2. dayn

    dayn Supporting Member

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    What is the "secret amp forum?"
     
  3. RC2

    RC2 Silver Supporting Member

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  4. RC2

    RC2 Silver Supporting Member

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    I'd better
     
  5. RC2

    RC2 Silver Supporting Member

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    get my post count up!!
     
  6. Steve Dallas

    Steve Dallas Supporting Member

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    The secret amp forum is a group of guys who are secretly cloning current production booteek amps like /13, Dr Z, and Komet. I have the link on my other computer, but you can't see what they are up to without logging in.
     
  7. Guitar Josh

    Guitar Josh Resident Curmudgeon Silver Supporting Member

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    I have 20+ TGP refs, am a contributing member, and have 1500 posts, you can trust me :D
     
  8. wsaraceni

    wsaraceni Member

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    unfortunately, i think its hard to enforce any of those things. best bet would probably be limit it to approx 20 people or so. ask for everyone that requests send an email to you. the first 20 names you recognize and dont see an issue with get in. the rest, maybe can get onboard the 2nd time.
     
  9. pat

    pat Member

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    I wouldn't really be a suitable candidate for testing but I've been interested in the project so I'll humbly offer these suggestions to address each issue:

    1. That the amps won't vanish without a trace.
    Have each participant submit a credit card based "security deposit". Since you own a company I suspect you could easily process that. The fee could simply be refunded once the participant has returned the amp or be applied to the purchase if the participant decides to order one.

    For distribution, you could use the "FedEx" model and serve as the "hub" for the unit. All shipments go from your shop to a participant. The participant then returns the unit to you (they pay return shipping) after an agreed upon period of "review" time. This serves several purposes:

    a) Shipping costs are more equitable as you are paying the same as they are for the shipment inbound and out. Eliminates the possibility of one participant paying for shipping coast to coast whereas another may only have to pay for a local delivery if the unit was moving from participant to participant. I imagine this might not sit well with some.

    b) Establishes a "chain of custody" so that if it does disappear you know where it actually was last. Also addresses concern Number 3 in that you can check the unit for damage when it is returned before sending it out again.

    2. That the schematics won't end up on the internet
    Lock the chassis or cabinet in such a way that attempting to open it or remove it will only be possible by destroying or heavily damaging the unit. May be ugly but who cares, it's a demo unit. Maybe using those "tamper proof" (ha ha) torx screws or even better yet just using some sort of real locking mechanism like a hasp and lock to prevent the back of the cabinet from being opened or the chassis from being removed. Put a piece of black plexi or something over the open portion of the chassis if it is visible by other means (sticking a mirror or digital camera into the unit). How about that tamper proof tape that is used on some products?

    3. That they won't be damaged
    Build a reusable shipping crate that must be used for each shipment. If the participant doesn't use the shipping crate when it is returned to you they lose their deposit. As previously mentioned, if the unit always returns to you it can be checked before being sent back out.

    Finally, to cover all of the above, a clearly written and legally binding "Terms of Use" contract a participant must agree to and sign stating the terms as outlined above e.g. the "must use the shipping container" thing, the deposit, won't copy or distribute the circuit, etc.

    This all may seem excessive to some but even among friends disagreements can turn ugly. If everybody knows and agrees to the rules there is really not much room for argument.

    I, as I suspect many members do, really appreciate the time and money you have put into this project and wouldn't want to see that squashed by some problem that could be avoided. You are willing to send several pieces of equipment conservatively worth over $1000.00 each to people's doorsteps so they can try it for FREE (okay, cost of shipping). I would hope that any participants would appreciate this and not quibble over rules intended to protect against someone taking advantage of your work and generosity.

    My 3 cents (2008 rate increase).
     
  10. dayn

    dayn Supporting Member

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    I won't need to test the Wreck...I just want sound and video clips of the amp being played. I want to hear the clean to mean with touch dynamics and volume knob control, bloom, feedback, etc.
     
  11. dayn

    dayn Supporting Member

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    What pat said.
     
  12. Hacksaw

    Hacksaw Time Warped Gold Supporting Member

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    I would like to hear it in person. I would like to test drive the Wrecktified amp and see how it does in the bedroom. I am very interested in this amp from the beginning.

    S2amps, if you decide not to send out the amp for test drives, let me know if it is OK to come see you in Tx on a Saturday..

    Thanks!

    Rik
     
  13. phatster

    phatster Member

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    I would like to test it as well but well conceived video clips would suffice for me.The guy who does the TW videos{geetarplayer} would be a great test since he knows the real thing and is a solid player!I'm gettin more excited!
     
  14. dayn

    dayn Supporting Member

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    I agree...send it to Glen for his opinion (Geetarpicker).
     
  15. Steve Dallas

    Steve Dallas Supporting Member

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    Yeah. I have his CD. Actually, it has become a permanent resident in my car's CD changer. And it is rigged so that if the CD is ever removed, the car self-destructs. I really like that CD! I hope to get him on the rotation somewhere. Glen? Are you listening? Can you hear it ring?
     
  16. amp boy

    amp boy Member

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    i would like to hear these amps, but listen too your concerns...that i agree with whole heartedly, see if you can limit it in the state your in.
    You can get valid address, and even meet in person perhaps.
    maybe you can swap amps, and then they'll know the condition of their own amp...hahahhaa.....

    i would consider some local tests first............it also eliminates nation wide shipping error and cost. i think the duty to come into Canada would be like me paying for a quarter of the amp....i might as well just buy it by then...hahhaa.......
    best hopes with this.
     
  17. Steve Dallas

    Steve Dallas Supporting Member

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    Thanks for the ideas, guys.

    I'm trying to send the amps around to as many people as I can without too many rules or restrictions or cost or bureaucracy without exposing myself to undue risk. I want you guys (and gals) to play them, enjoy them, record them, critique them, criticize them, whatever you want as much as humanly possible. I don't care if they are on the circuit for 6 months or more. I just want to be sure I'll get them back in the end and I won't have the rug pulled out from under me by some unscrupulous minority.

    Honestly, I had intended to do one of these as a "project" and release the schematic to the public. That was before I had my arm twisted to sell them (and spend the time and money to design 5 or 6 of them). Now I can't very well release the schematic any more than Mike Zaite can...

    I think 99% of you are honorable folks who won't mind paying $10 to $20 shipping (and I'm tempted to send along my DHL or UPS account number to cover it for you) to get to play with a booteek amp for a week or so with no other strings attached. I think the vast majority of you will play nicely and follow the "rules" with a nod and a handshake. I've met several of you at guitar shows and amp fests and think you are great folks. But I've been burned by the 1% and don't care to get burned again.

    So without going nuts with verification and CC numbers, how can we orchestrate this thing? I don't want to send amps only to people who can afford a $500 hold on their CC. I want to send amps to every honorable person on this board. How can we make that happen?
     
  18. Groovey Records

    Groovey Records Member

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    Making the Amp Available to Members who have made a donation to TGP. Not enough people do. In fact only 3 people on this thread have. And your not one of them.

    Joe Tee
    President of the How to win Friends and Influence People School of Thought
     
  19. Steve Dallas

    Steve Dallas Supporting Member

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    Actually, I **AM** one of them. My moniker simply does not reflect it. Here's a copy and paste of the most recent one:

    [​IMG]Transaction Details

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Web Accept Payment Sent (ID # 0G665947HW1421xxx)

    Name:
    Brian Scherzer (The recipient of this payment is Verified)Email:
    b.scherzer@xxxx.net
    Total Amount:
    -$xxx.00 USD
    Item Amount:
    xxx.00 USDShipping:
    $0.00 USDHandling:
    $0.00 USDQuantity:
    1Item Title:
    Donation To The Gear PageItem Number:
    Gear Page DonationDate:
    Dec. 24, 2007Time:
    11:07:31 PSTStatus:
    Completed[​IMG] Shipping Address:
    No Address Provided
    Funding Type:
    PayPal FundsFunding Source:
    xxx.00 USD - PayPal Account


    And the contraction for "you are" is spelled "you're."
     
  20. trucks

    trucks Member

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    Given that the amp is worth in excess of 1K, I think some assurances are reasonable. Why not have members send you a fax with some piece of id with their address (cable bill, etc), agree to pay for any damage while in their possession or if shipping rules are not followed and sign a simple non-disclosure to cover the circuit?

    'Course preference should be given to your old customers. :AOK
     

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