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Scales?? Pretty much useless for improvising well.

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Pushing nothing IMO. He nevered mastered jazz so he went a different route. Nothing wrong with that, but in a straight ahead jazz setting with straight ahead players, he is going to get his arse handed to him. :dude
:facepalm

yeah, and benson 'destroys' frisell, abercrombie and scofield...
 

Tom Gross

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Agreed. This (thread) is starting to reminded me of the (verbal) fight in the junior high bathroom about who was better, Clapton or Harrison. We grow up and realize how silly the initial premise is.
...or Superman vs. Green Lantern
 

mike walker

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These guys are all mega. Apart from the fact they all swim with different strokes in the big groove pool, and have ideas for years, they all have an individual thing going on.
 

JohnM

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These guys are all mega. Apart from the fact they all swim with different strokes in the big groove pool, and have ideas for years, they all have an individual thing going on.
That's a point that is being so overlooked...there are no finite 'better-thans' when you're talking about great players. If you think that way you'll never get it.
 

Kappy

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So Tag, what's your routine aside from transcribing? You transcribing entire solos, or small sections? What are you doing after that, taking the parts as originally played through the cycle? You writing it all out? Writing out bass and harmony stuff too? What other kinda' stuff you working on in addition to transcribing? What kinda' stuff was that Eddie Hart guy turning you on to? How were you selecting what you transcribe, etc., etc. I'm curious and would find that kinda' info more useful than the comparisons (which are way more useless to me than scales).

Thanks,

Dave
 

mc1

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These guys are all mega. Apart from the fact they all swim with different strokes in the big groove pool, and have ideas for years, they all have an individual thing going on.
but which of them use scales? isn't that the real question?
 

JohnM

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*disclaimer*
I wasn't trying to start a 'kurt is better than benson' argument here...If that's how you see things, it may seem that way...but I am trying to make the point that mastery of a genre has more than ONE approach. I hate comparing players as if one is 'better' than another. My guess was that Tag just wasn't that familiar with Rosenwinkel's playing...I figured a vid would help.
 

Tag

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If anyone could 'hand your ass to you' on guitar, Eddy Palermo would be one of those guys...I'd say Kurt holds his own (did I hear a blues lick?) Smooth, hip stuff in there for sure along with the old-school 'licks'.

http://www.youtube.com/v/GjyjxIOS9Ic&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/GjyjxIOS9Ic&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350">
Decent intermediate playing. No build. no real continuous flow of ideas, nothing new, whats the big deal? :dunno Some basic bop type licks, a few Metheny licks..there you have it. I think Eddy did hand him his arse. Now get someonle like Benson, Rodney jones, lagrene, Luc, Van Ruler etc etc in there and watch the place explode.
 

guitarjazz

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No worries, John. I enjoyed the video. There are some videos of Metheny jamming with Diorio at GIT. Nice hear people in a loose situation.
I'd thought of Metheny, Scofield, Frisell as the 'young guys' till a few years ago when a friend hipped me to Kurt, Monder, Rogers et al.
 

Tag

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I am amazed that Tag never mentions that Benson is one of the biggest "sellouts" in the history of jazz-he basically invented smooth jazz right?His 60s recordings are great but he has never developed beyond that in my opinion.

You listen to the wrong things. And yes, Benson is the greatest fusion/smooth jazz player as well. :beer
 

Tag

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So Tag, what's your routine aside from transcribing?


You transcribing entire solos, or small sections?
Time limitations keep me going for things I do not understand, and or things that really catch my ear. Also things I do not like to see why I do not care for them.


What are you doing after that, taking the parts as originally played through the cycle?
Instantly force them into my playing over different songs in as many places as possible. Take a major line and make it minor and or dominant, place it on different beats, etc etc etc. Run it over a chord, and into and out of a change. Then break it insto smaller parts and or add other things to it.
Writing out bass and harmony stuff too? What kinda' stuff was that Hart guy turning you on to?

Every great jazz player from jelly Roll through Rodney Jones.



How were you selecting what you transcribe, etc., etc.
See above.




I'm curious and would find that kinda' info more useful than the comparisons (which are way more useless to me than scales).

Thanks,

Dave.
There you go. No problem. :)
 

JohnM

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706
Decent intermediate playing. No build. no real continuous flow of ideas, nothing new, whats the big deal? :dunno Some basic bop type licks, a few Metheny licks..there you have it. I think Eddy did hand him his arse. Now get someonle like Benson, Rodney jones, lagrene, Luc, Van Ruler etc etc in there and watch the place explode.
My whole point was that he can play some traditional-ish bop but his real strength is a more innovative, introspective type of playing, not to mention composition. (Huh? there's more to playing music than blowing lines??...) No better contrast than hearing him play with a cat like Palermo.

If all you a re hearing is metheny licks and a few basic bop licks, fair enough! :beer
 

russ6100

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Tag,

Seriously - check this out. Jazz. Swinging like nobody's biz.

This is modern straight ahead - this is *not* fusion. And this is decidedly *not* intermediate.

 
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