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Scumback H75 vs. H55 vs. M75 Comparison Clips

Messages
3,766
For my own uses, I decided to do my best to record these three speakers with identical amp, settings, mic placement, etc. I even tried to do similar licks. But I can never seem to remember exactly what I played ..heh.

I'm concerned that my H55 might have something slightly wrong with it since it seems to be adding artifacts to my sound. May Jim can detect anything funny in the clip.

(EDIT: All speakers are High Powered versions)SM57 45 degree angle at the grill pointing directly at the center of each cone. Traynor amp modded to superbass specs (EDIT: Toggle switch switched to split cathode on V1) with all controls dimed except presence halfway up. PPIV master is only 1/3 up. '71 Les paul with Duncan '59 in the Bridge:

H75

H55

M75

Hope this helps someone.
 
Last edited:

Scumback Speakers

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
10,873
When we did the whole shootout thing four years ago we were testing different mic angles, placements, etc. After about 20 moves we all decided the best location was about 1" in from the outside edge of the frame, with the SM57 set at an angle that was the same as the cone angle.

Pic of that mic position here:


Any mic placed near the dust cap area, or aimed at the center of it gave us some odd tones and weirdness, too. I hate to say it, Tyler, but if the six of us, and the recording engineer (thanks Andy Z!) all agreed this was the best mic angle/placement for recording, maybe you ought to try it and see if this works for you.

We had the mic about 1" away from the cloth as well.
 
Messages
3,766
...I hate to say it, Tyler, but if the six of us, and the recording engineer (thanks Andy Z!) all agreed this was the best mic angle/placement for recording, maybe you ought to try it and see if this works for you.

We had the mic about 1" away from the cloth as well.
Lol...no reason to hate to say anything. Any help is appreciated. I simply defaulted to the 45 degree pointed at the center.

Technically, it not all THAT far off from what you describe. Because of the angle, the mic is about an 1" away from the frame. I just need to determine the angle of the cone and compensate. SO hard to do, though, because of the thick grill of the Germino cab;)

Though... it does concern me how "bad" the H55 sounds next to the other two. Even with the exact same mic placement. If thats what a H55 is supposed to sound like, Its obviously not for me.
 

ssdeluxe

Member
Messages
1,253
thanks for doing that Tyler ! nice playin' and love your rock tone !

you know, I know there were definately differences, but I wouldn't argue with any of those depending on application and how it worked with other instruments in a mix, for live, again, totally diff. and I'm sure alot of folks will have differing opinions.

I love the m for midrange "wood", but I love the h and h55 as well, less mids, but more quack and bite....

and I totally agree with Jim, gr8 place for mic placement, experiment is still always the way, but that approach eliminates alot of strident tones that are focus'd too much on the center dome, where the "harshies" live.

thanks.!
 

Scumback Speakers

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
10,873
The other thing is that you'll find that using the same EQ setup for all three speakers isn't the best way to do it. An H speaker doesn't need the bass dimed on a Super Bass amp, and I'm sure the poor M was wondering what hit it!

You can do it the way you did it, of course, but in the real world many folks don't dime all of their controls. I know I don't, for one.
 
Messages
3,766
The other thing is that you'll find that using the same EQ setup for all three speakers isn't the best way to do it. An H speaker doesn't need the bass dimed on a Super Bass amp, and I'm sure the poor M was wondering what hit it!

You can do it the way you did it, of course, but in the real world many folks don't dime all of their controls. I know I don't, for one.
You have to dime it! ITS ROCK!!! SHEESH! ..hehe (BTW, what where the settings on your Marshall Trem amp you used on YOUR comparison clips?)

WAIT A SEC! I'm so sorry...I gave this amp a few switches. One of which goes between a split and a shared cathode on V1! I have it set to split cathode and the bright switch off...

Soo...its not really a superbass afterall. Sorta a hybrid I guess.
 

4styx

Member
Messages
1,269
How about one with H55 and M75 together.I like the sound of each speaker individually but haven't heard them together.
 

Scumback Speakers

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
10,873
You have to dime it! ITS ROCK!!! SHEESH! ..hehe (BTW, what where the settings on your Marshall Trem amp you used on YOUR comparison clips?)
I didn't set up the amps, I let the others who were involved in the test do that, just to make sure it was a fair, blind test. Each speaker was optimized for it's tone by Dan Boul, Andy Z, Stewart Hathaway and Sam Enriquez.

If I had done it, it wouldn't be considered a fair test.
 

LPMojoGL

Music Room Superstar
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
9,110
Thanks for the comparison! The M reminded me of ACDC, H of ZZTop. Both sounded great. Which Traynor and what mods?
 

Seegs

Member
Messages
10,170
H75 for me...aggressive...chimey and in your face...love it...

didn't hate the M75 at but it does sound a bit subdued or muffled in comparison to the H75...

H55...don't remember the one I heard sounding this bright...

Chow,
Seegs
 

ianblond

Member
Messages
749
Try to use good Ribbon mic (Royer 121, SE Ribbon) instead of Shure 57.Just 8 inch from dustcap , straight ahead speaker.It is the simplest way to mic placement and the simple way to obtain clear , almost perfect reflexion of speaker.BTW H75 is great - i use one .
 

Chrissy

Member
Messages
974
Many, many thanks Tyler.

H75 sounds familiar - I have those in a couple of cabs and that captures things well compared to how I hear it in the room.

Seegs has heard my H55s and I agree that one sounds unusually bright. I would have expected to hear more low mids and bass due to the 55 cone - that's how it sounds in the room. That's also why I think that whilst the H55/H75 mix is a great tone, I sometimes find myself tweaking the amp controls because I'm trying to make each speaker sound best, yet there isn't one eq setting that suits both down to the ground. So part of me understands the guys who don't like to mix different speakers (not on grounds of db, but due to tonal differences).

The M speaker has a very appealing mid for sure! I'm also in the camp that thinks it's hard to judge speakers all with the same amp eq. Put it this way: if I set my Komet to sound good with H55/H75 and then plug in the Heritage Greenback cab, the Greenbacks will sound "wrong"; if I eq to the Greenbacks so the tone is lovely, the H55/H75 mix doesn't sound great. The perils of A/Bing I suppose: if you'd used different amp settings, others would complain that the test wasn't standardised. :)

I appreciate your doing this and it's helpful to get an earful of what the M75 might do in my rig. Thanks!
Chris
 

gulliver

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
10,497
Nice work!

I was interested in the M75, but I'm liking the H75's crunch. I want the 65 watt version, though, so I'm wondering if the M75 in 65 watts would sound more like the H75 (with the bigger magnet).
 

big mike

Cathode biased
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
13,091
Not in my opinion. The higher wattage ones still sound like M's but with a bit more 'weight' to the tone.
 

ianblond

Member
Messages
749
I`m surprised that H55 sounds worse than H75.I expected more low end and a bit darker sound than H75 but this particular sample sounds brighter and scooped in unpleasant way.
 




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