Scumback is... back!

[Dinosaur Sr.]

Not interested in the speculation, but I would like just to find out what is now available that are Scumbacks. Say, I want to buy a Scumback M75 65 watt 8 ohm speaker. Who can I buy them from new and how much are they from each distributor? I don't care if it says Scumback or not.

I was looking for exactly that same exact speaker just last night and almost bought it from Scumback (actually had it in my cart). Thankfully I was googling reviews before pulling the trigger and found this thread. I ordered a Legacy from Weber. I pasted below the specs from my order confimation--pretty sure this is the same specs as a M75 65W 8ohm. (The Scumbacks M75s used to say they had 35 oz magnets, but I read on a different thread that Weber rounds the magnet weights and "30 oz." magnets are really "35 oz.")

1 item Legacy12F subtotal = $ 120.00 (No Tax)
Legacy Series Ceramic 12 inch Speaker
* Cone Style - 75Hz
* Dustcap - British
* Impedance - 8 Ohms
* Magnet Type - 30oz
* Power - 65 watts
We thank you for your order. We will build/ship asap!
Shipping/Handling: $17

I'm pretty confident I bought a very similar (possibly an exactly similar) speaker to the ones Weber was shipping out as Scumbacks M75s a month ago (sans mojo of course) and saved myself $50. Scumback was actually having a $20 off sale so, the Weber would have been $70 less than the M75 at Scumback's regular price. (Weber's shipping was $3 cheaper than Scumback's too.)

Don't know (or much care) about the dealings between Weber & Scumback, but I'm betting any quality accusations against Weber are marketing spin. I have 3 other Weber (Jensen-style) speakers in various amps. I like them and I've never had any problems.

 

[millhouse76]

You didn't get what you think you did. You bought a Weber. Not a Scumback made by Weber. Might sound the same to you, might not. If you are happy with it, enjoy it!

I was looking for exactly that same exact speaker just last night and almost bought it from Scumback (actually had it in my cart). Thankfully I was googling reviews before pulling the trigger and found this thread. I ordered a Legacy from Weber. I pasted below the specs from my order confimation--pretty sure this is the same specs as a M75 65W 8ohm. (The Scumbacks M75s used to say they had 35 oz magnets, but I read on a different thread that Weber rounds the magnet weights and "30 oz." magnets are really "35 oz.")

1 item Legacy12F subtotal = $ 120.00 (No Tax)
Legacy Series Ceramic 12 inch Speaker
* Cone Style - 75Hz
* Dustcap - British
* Impedance - 8 Ohms
* Magnet Type - 30oz
* Power - 65 watts
We thank you for your order. We will build/ship asap!
Shipping/Handling: $17

I'm pretty confident I bought a very similar (possibly an exactly similar) speaker to the ones Weber was shipping out as Scumbacks M75s a month ago (sans mojo of course) and saved myself $50. Scumback was actually having a $20 off sale so, the Weber would have been $70 less than the M75 at Scumback's regular price. (Weber's shipping was $3 cheaper than Scumback's too.)

Don't know (or much care) about the dealings between Weber & Scumback, but I'm betting any quality accusations against Weber are marketing spin. I have 3 other Weber (Jensen-style) speakers in various amps. I like them and I've never had any problems.

 

[millhouse76]

You know what's sad? Two guys had an idea and became friends, and it worked. One if them passes unfortunately, and his son gets greedy. If it wasn't for his dad, he wouldn't have had the opportunity, and he forgets what got him to where he is. That is what's sad! Jim had the idea of Scumbacks and Ted made the speakers to match Jim's idea. No secret there. Weber (without Ted) decided they would try it on their own.

IMHO, this whole situation between the two companies is sad.

Both had very good reputations. Now they have pointed fingers at each other, which I think is really unfortunate. **** happens, relationships end, etc., but airing this stuff on message boards (how could either side be truly objective?) seems misguided & short-sighted.

 

[rickc007]

You know what's sad? Two guys had an idea and became friends, and it worked. One if them passes unfortunately, and his son gets greedy. If it wasn't for his dad, he wouldn't have had the opportunity, and he forgets what got him to where he is. That is what's sad! Jim had the idea of Scumbacks and Ted made the speakers to match Jim's idea. No secret there. Weber (without Ted) decided they would try it on their own.

You know Weber personally ?

You say "greedy" , others on this thread say he has no "desire", no "passion"...
which is it ?

"Weber" decided to try it on their own ???
Weber has been making speakers for decades, Teds son has been there
many years. Business as usual over there

"Scumback" is now going at it alone ....
We'll see how that goes

Was hoping this thread, and the concerted attacks at Weber would disappear

 

[rickc007]

Or... Son doesn't have the ability to continue the biz at the same velocity and keep the confidence of banks, employees, vendors, customers... And is scrambling to maintain quality and/or margins? Lots we don't know here, and shouldn't.

Is this a fact ???
Now "banks have lost confidence in Weber" ?
Employees ???

Wow !

Lots we don't know here...

You sure ? Sounds like we have a lot of experts here ...

Do we have the inside scoop yet on why Weber Dumped Scumback ?
Or an office pool on when Scumback will go out of business yet ?

 

[Hacksaw]

Is this a fact ???
Now "banks have lost confidence in Weber" ?
Employees ???

Wow !



You sure ? Sounds like we have a lot of experts here ...

Do we have the inside scoop yet on why Weber Dumped Scumback ?
Or an office pool on when Scumback will go out of business yet ?

office pool on weber going out is setup.

 

[falconer]

"Scumback" is now going at it alone ....
We'll see how that goes

Was hoping this thread, and the concerted attacks at Weber would disappear

"We'll see how that goes." "Or an office pool on when Scumback will go out of business yet ?"

It's a good thing the attacks on Scumback disappeared.

 

[donbarzini]

Is this a fact ???
Now "banks have lost confidence in Weber" ?
Employees ???

Wow !



You sure ? Sounds like we have a lot of experts here ...

Do we have the inside scoop yet on why Weber Dumped Scumback ?
Or an office pool on when Scumback will go out of business yet ?

Jim is the chef, Weber was the cook.

 

[Brian Scherzer]

Please let these two companies work out whatever is happening between themselves. It is not helpful to have fans of each side line up to try to beat each other down. It is not that hard to be a fan of a company without having to get worked up about "the other side". Please feel free to discuss the products, but try to keep the speculation and personalities out of the conversation.

 

[strangec]

I had heard it that Jim at Scumback was looking to move away from Weber for certain reasons and Weber simply cut him off before he could fully set up a copmpeting arrangement.
I'm sure Jim will be happier with more control over his mfg and Weber will enjoy extending their pre-Rola treatment with the Legacy Line.
And we as the consumer get more options and competing products and price points. Nice.

 

[Prairie Dawg]

It's a classic case of reverse engineering and failure, going in, to define ownership of the end product-in this case trade secrets. One guy provides the samples and testing and the other provides the technology specific know how and manufacturing capability. They both learn from each other. Then there's a falling out.

It happens all the time. And, in the absence of a formalized arrangement as to who owns the designs the answer is both and neither. Weber was definitely not a make-to-print shop.

There's no putting this genie back in the bottle when there's money to be made.

TA's rendition seems to indicate that Jim's arranging his own production was going to happen soon enough anyway and that production at Weber was at best a temporary arrangement.

Best of luck to them both, but it's a hard lesson to learn about how you didn't protect your trade secrets.

 

[strangec]

Sorry Brian- I must have been typing at the same time you were.

 

[rickc007]

Please let these two companies work out whatever is happening between themselves. It is not helpful to have fans of each side line up to try to beat each other down. It is not that hard to be a fan of a company without having to get worked up about "the other side". Please feel free to discuss the products, but try to keep the speculation and personalities out of the conversation.

Please lock this thread .... Please !

That one guy has 4 posts total on TGP, yet he knows Webers internals
from his banks, employees, vendors and customers ????

Please, please lock this thread ....

 

[Hacksaw]

Please lock this thread .... Please !

That one guy has 4 posts total on TGP, yet he knows Webers internals
from his banks, employees, vendors and customers ????

Please, please lock this thread ....

Well.. not much different than anyone else here. 4 posts, doesn't matter.

This entire thing is all speculation, as Brian pointed out. But, We seen the results of business action. Scumback, Lordvalve. Kind of a done deal.

 

[redshark1105]

WOW!! I can't really believe this thing is still going. I think there's no need for drama in this issue, really. If you were talking about the partnership to design a new product I could understand all of this but for crying out loud the product we are talking about here is a CLONE!!! all the speakers are just clones of old celestions!!
It is true that Jim had the insterest and genuine desire to work on getting a sound that was getting harder and harder and more expensive to get and he found in Weber the ideal partner because of his experience to copy vintage speaker sounds with his vintage line of Jensen clones. Everything is good there, it was a succesful team effort. Now they decide to part ways, who owns the "design"? NOBODY!!! Jim owns his knowledge of the product and Weber owns his expertise of making things happen!! That's all!! No need for more drama here!! Is all good!! They will both fill the need of people looking for that sound and everybody should be happy to have "options" to find that sound.....
Copiers of the old celestion:
Celestion, Weber, Scumback, warehouse, eminence!!!!
It's funny that the need of the clones is there just because the original companies decide to cut corners to get profits and change their recipe.
Now celestion is back with the heritage series after scumback decided to go for it.
Amplifier companies now are doing the same.....
Fender now has the handwired champ and twin
Marshall, orange, VOX, etc. now have the upgraded handwired amps when other companies already got in the market doing what these companies should do since the beginning, keep the original recipe!!. Interesting.

 

[Sirloin]

WOW!! I can't really believe this thing is still going. I think there's no need for drama in this issue, really. If you were talking about the partnership to design a new product I could understand all of this but for crying out loud the product we are talking about here is a CLONE!!! all the speakers are just clones of old celestions!!
It is true that Jim had the insterest and genuine desire to work on getting a sound that was getting harder and harder and more expensive to get and he found in Weber the ideal partner because of his experience to copy vintage speaker sounds with his vintage line of Jensen clones. Everything is good there, it was a succesful team effort. Now they decide to part ways, who owns the "design"? NOBODY!!! Jim owns his knowledge of the product and Weber owns his expertise of making things happen!! That's all!! No need for more drama here!! Is all good!! They will both fill the need of people looking for that sound and everybody should be happy to have "options" to find that sound.....
Copiers of the old celestion:
Celestion, Weber, Scumback, warehouse, eminence!!!!
It's funny that the need of the clones is there just because the original companies decide to cut corners to get profits and change their recipe.
Now celestion is back with the heritage series after scumback decided to go for it.
Amplifier companies now are doing the same.....
Fender now has the handwired champ and twin
Marshall, orange, VOX, etc. now have the upgraded handwired amps when other companies already got in the market doing what these companies should do since the beginning, keep the original recipe!!. Interesting.

+1,000,000,000 My posts tend to kill a lot of threads around here. Hopefully I just killed this one

 

[Rev2S]

Good luck to both companies....

 

[TubeLuvr]

Please lock this thread .... Please !

That one guy has 4 posts total on TGP, yet he knows Webers internals
from his banks, employees, vendors and customers ????

Please, please lock this thread ....

So you can only know 'internals' if you have a certain number of posts????

 

[big mike]

Conjecture, posturing and pissing contest needs to stop right now.

 

[Leonc]

All BS in this thread notwithstanding...As I told Jim a couple months ago: this is the best thing that TA Weber could possibly have done for him. The very one best thing. I think Jim owes Weber a big hug and a kiss!!!