Scumback Speaker thread.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Red Planet, Nov 9, 2005.


  1. Red Planet

    Red Planet Member

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    Allright Jimbo. Lets have it.

    I'd like to know all the models/versions your offering these days -- what wattages etc.... Any specs and info you can offer up.

    And anything youd like to add. Info on the history of starting to make these and all. I know Weber makes em to your specs and all but how you got started doing this and so on.


    Consider this a non comercial, non solicited, non affiliated question by a fellow gear freak.

    I just want to know all the poop on these.
     
  2. clarkram

    clarkram Member

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    Isn't most of that info on the Scumbag web page?
     
  3. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    Yes sir, it is, but I've heard of some issues with people getting to my site (Windows 98 or XP, I'm not sure) but they can't get the home page to come up, for some reason. Anyway, I've got a professional HTML web site guy hired to redo the entire site. To get this dialed in for Red Planet, here's what the Scumback speaker page (sans soundfiles and pics) will say on the site when it's done. Sorry for the long post...

    Red Planet, here you go…

    History of the Scumback:
    I needed a great sounding speaker to go in my amp line. I’m a fan and lover of the old Celestion Pre Rola speaker, after it’s been played for several years, and broken in, the treble tone has mellowed a bit, has a clear high end, full bodied mids and bass response.

    I bought about 300 old Celestions over the course of five years, from 1999 to 2004. By the time I finally bought the last of my “Celestion Collection” last summer (July 2004), I was up to paying about $350 per speaker for the G12H30 55 hz Pre Rola speakers, as these seemed to be the most popular with my clients for their combo amps. I had already collected the G12M Pre Rola’s, and many cone variations of them, as well as the 20 & 25 watt G12M lead and bass cones, plus the 25 & 30 watt G12H30 lead and bass cones.

    After I realized that finding any steady reliable supply of these speakers was hopeless, I decided to see about having a custom speaker built. I approached my local Celestion dealer, OCSR (Orange County Speaker Repair), about custom speakers, but they were only interested in getting off the shelf Celestion cones, making a new voice coil for them to my specs, and assembling it. There wasn’t going to be any custom voicing of the speaker. That meant I’d pretty much have a G12H30 Reissue, or a G12M RI speaker with a custom name. That wasn’t the tone I wanted to end up with, so I kept looking.

    I then did some more research on who could do this, and I contacted Ted Weber with my idea. Ted was receptive to the goal, but I had a twist for him. What I wanted to do was to send him a “perfect’ Pre Rola speaker for each model (lead and bass cone), to use as a “tone target” for a brand new recreation of the old tone I wanted. I enlisted the aid of OCSR to help me find it, so I started bringing in my “collection” (we’re talking over 100 speakers at that point), and having OCSR test them. Since OCSR has been in business since 1969 doing only speaker sales, repair, & warranty work, they had the necessary expertise, and testing equipment to test the speakers I brought them. I then brought in what I had, and found out how many I had bought that had issues under a high wattage load, such as “cone cry”, voice coil rub, vibration noise, etc. Roughly 40% of what I bought off of eBay didn’t cut it for their ears. After weeding out the known bad ones, we narrowed down the rest of the speakers to categories of:
    1) Good, passes tests as a new speaker
    2) Excellent, passes tests and has superior tone
    3) Perfect, as close to perfect as they’d ever heard

    When I got a perfect one, I marked it, and put it on my speaker shelf for safekeeping (boxed, padded, etc.) I made notes of the date code, Txxxx # and the cone code, date, etc. When I found a perfect one, the next thing was to find a “dead one” with the same markings, date code, etc. to within a few weeks, or a month at most.

    When you bid on a speaker on eBay and bid up to $150 to get a “blown speaker” I’m sure the seller is figuring I’m nuts. But I only bought it for the dead cone, and the dates that matched the perfect one it paired up to.

    End result? Both speakers had to have original Pulsonic cones in their frames, and one had to sound perfect, one had to be dead for Ted to autopsy, and then recreate.

    When I got the first speaker set, a T1217 G12H30 lead cone with a 102 003 Pulsonic lead cone, I sent it to Ted to recreate in August, 2004. He went through a lot of testing and cone swapping, doping techniques and suspension to match that speaker. It took him about 5 months, and he delivered the first SA12H75's (G12H30 lead cone recreation) to me, along with my perfect “tone target” to compare it to in last December, 2004. That speaker is the SA12H-75.

    I put the two new speakers into a 2x12 closed back cab, then pulled out my original 1969 4x12 Marshall Major (1982 straight cab model with original G12H30’s) and had five guitar players come over to do an A/B comparison test. After the test, the comments ranged from “it’s so close it’s ridiculous”, and “we’re splitting hairs over the differences” to “I think it sounds better than the Pre Rolas”.

    After that, I sent Ted my other old G12H30 55hz speaker (bass cone model), and an old G12M lead cone Pre Rola from 1971 to recreate. The 55hz H model he finished in January, 2005, what’s known as the SA12H-55. He finished the 75 hz M model in May 2005, after a lot of testing, and trial and error. That speaker is the SA12M75.

    So that’s pretty much the whole story. I made the speakers for my amps, and they just turned out to be a very popular tone that other players wanted. I have ten 12” models now, and one 10” model. My site is about to be totally redone, so sound files, clips, and all that will be up somewhere around December 1st.

    Speaker models are as follows:

    SA12H-75: 50 ounce H (heavy magnet), 75hz bass response, 12 inch special design aged cone, small dust cap with vintage correct doping, spider, and voice coil tolerances. A close recreation of the 102 003 Pulsonic lead cone, with the complex lower mids, robust midrange and clear highs this speaker cone produced. This speaker is very similar to the tone produced in the Marshall 1960 cabs of the late Sixties with the 100 watt logo. 30 watt power handling, 8 or 16 ohm versions available. $159.00

    SA12-LHDC: 50 oz H (heavy magnet), 75hz bass response, 12 inch special design aged cone, large dust cap with vintage correct doping, spider, and voice coil tolerances. A close recreation of the 102 003 Pulsonic cone, with the complex lower mids, robust midrange and slightly rolled off highs this speaker produces. The large dust cap smoothes out the highs, and makes the speaker creamier on the top end. The large dust cap (similar to the G12-65 Celestion) diffuses the high end, and handles higher gain better due to the large dust cap. 30 watt power handling, 8 or 16 ohm versions available. $159.00

    SA12H-55: 50 ounce H (heavy magnet), 55hz bass response, 12 inch special design aged cone, small dust cap with vintage correct doping, spider, and voice coil tolerances. A close recreation of the 102 014 Pulsonic bass cone, with the complex low & lower mids, robust midrange and clear highs this speaker cone produced. This speaker is very similar to the tone produced in the Marshall 1982 cabs of the late Sixties with the 100 watt logo. These were the heavy duty speaker versions used in bass cabs but also favored by guitarists of the day as well, for their extended bass response. Awesome for Strat players who desire more low end. 30 watt power handling, 8 or 16 ohm versions available. $159.00

    SA12H-75HP: 50 ounce H (heavy magnet), 75hz bass response, 12 inch special design aged cone, small dust cap with vintage correct doping, spider, and voice coil tolerances. A close recreation of the 102 003 Pulsonic lead cone, with the complex lower mids, robust midrange and clear highs this speaker cone produced. This speaker is very similar to the tone produced in the Marshall 1960 cabs of the late Sixties, with 60 watt power handling, 8 or 16 ohm versions available. $159.00

    SA12H-55HP: 50 ounce H (heavy magnet), 75hz bass response, 12 inch special design aged cone, small dust cap with vintage correct doping, spider, and voice coil tolerances. A close recreation of the 102 014 Pulsonic lead cone, with the complex lower mids, robust midrange and clear highs this speaker cone produced. This speaker is very similar to the tone produced in the Marshall 1982 cabs of the late Sixties, with 60 watt power handling, 8 or 16 ohm versions available. $159.00


    SA12M-75: 35 ounce M (medium weight magnet), 75hz bass response, 12 inch special design aged cone, small dust cap with vintage correct doping, spider, and voice coil tolerances. A close recreation of the 102 003 Pulsonic lead cone, with the complex lower mids, robust midrange and clear highs this speaker cone produced, but more focused in the midrange frequencies. A favorite of lead guitarists who are looking for the lower wattage power handling and the overdriven character this speaker offers. This speaker is very similar to the tone produced in the Marshall 1960 cabs of the late Sixties. 25 watt power handling, 8 or 16 ohm versions available. $159.00

    SA12M-LHDC: 35oz M (medium weight magnet), 75hz bass response12 inch special design aged cone, large dust cap with vintage correct doping, spider, and voice coil tolerances. A close recreation of the 102 003 Pulsonic cone, with the complex lower mids, robust midrange and slightly ?rolled off? highs this speaker produces, but more focused in the midrange frequencies. The large dust cap smoothes out the highs, and makes the speaker more ?creamy? on the top end. The large dust cap (similar to the G12-65 Celestion) diffuses the high end, and handles higher gain better due to the large dust cap. . 25 watt power handling, 8 or 16 ohm versions available. $159.00

    SA12M-55: 35oz M (medium weight magnet), 55hz bass response, 12 inch special design aged cone, small dust cap with vintage correct doping, spider, and voice coil tolerances. A close recreation of the 102 014 Pulsonic bass cone, with the complex low & lower mids, robust midrange and clear highs this speaker cone produced, but more focused in the lower midrange frequencies. This speaker is very similar to the tone produced in the Marshall 1982 cabs of the late Sixties. These were the heavy duty speaker versions used in bass cabs but also favored by guitarists of the day as well, for their extended bass response. Awesome for Strat players. 25 watt power handling, 8 or 16 ohm versions available. $159.00

    SA12M-75HP: 35oz M (medium weight magnet), 75hz bass response, 12 inch special design aged cone, small dust cap with vintage correct doping, spider, and voice coil tolerances. A close recreation of the 102 003 Pulsonic lead cone, with the complex lower mids, robust midrange and clear highs this speaker cone produced, but with higher power handling, and more focused in the midrange frequencies. This speaker is very similar to the tone produced in the Marshall 1960 cabs of the late Sixties. 60 watt power handling, 8 or 16 ohm versions available. $159.00

    SA10-75: 25oz ceramic magnet, 75hz bass response, 10 inch special design aged cone, small dust cap with vintage correct doping, spider, and voice coil tolerances. A close recreation of the Celestion 10” 9384 “Greenback” speaker used in the 2x10 BluesBreaker combos, fitted with the 102 002 Pulsonic lead cone, with the complex lower mids, robust midrange and clear highs this speaker cone produced, but with higher power handling, and more focused in the midrange frequencies. This speaker is very similar to the tone produced in the Marshall 8x10 cabs of the late Sixties. 30 watt power handling, 8 or 16 ohm versions available. $149.00
     
  4. Red Planet

    Red Planet Member

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    Thanx I couldnt find anything on your site. I'll look again. Your site came up but I couldnt find speakers other than clips of a bucnch of other speakers. Maybe you could post a direct link?
     
  5. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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  6. mmorse

    mmorse Member

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    Told ya your site needed work. :D Just bustin em Jim. It's what I do! My M-75s are singin purdy these days along with their G12-65 bros.

    mark
     
  7. stratnpaul

    stratnpaul Member

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    can a large dustcap be ordered with any of these models
    (eg 55htz 60watt model heavy mag)
     
  8. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    Yes, although I think putting the large dustcap on the 55hz cone isn't needed unless you REALLY want some extended bass response. Celestion did it with their G12-80 speakers in the early 80's, and later with the G12H-100 models, IIRC.

    The G12-80 works great in my old Randall RG-80 open back combo cab, but the clean tones aren't quite as "chimey" because of the higher power handling and the large dust cap, IMO.

    I did have a client custom order an H55 with the 65 watt power handling and he's really ecstatic over it. Here's what he had to say about it:

    "BTW, I loaded my other cab with the new speaker and got to windmill the
    big G chord thru it with the 'wreck and all is good. In fact with the
    two large 1x12 cabs side by side horizontally I get this amazing
    stereo-like dispersion. Just killer chime with the tele and a low input
    jack. Of course the SG with humbuckers into the high input is live at
    the Fillmore/Wheels of Fire."
     
  9. pluto

    pluto Member

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    Scumbag, do you have the SA12H-55HP in stock?
     
  10. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    pluto, sorry, I don't have it in stock right now. I ordered that as a "one off" for the client who previously had the 30 watt version. He just wanted to get one with more power handling, so I told him I'd get two, one for him, one to try out myself.

    Before I could get it in a cab, I had it saved for RF to try out. He's away on tour, so the guy who got the first one wanted to know if he could get it since he loved the first one so much, so I caved in and sent it to him before I could even try it myself.

    I'd order it for you if you want it, though, but I'd need a full deposit to do it. It's about a 2-3 week wait on speakers at this point.

    Email me to discuss it though, you'll be glad you did.
     
  11. Lerxst2112

    Lerxst2112 Member

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    Hey, I know absolutely zilch about speakers... maybe you can help me? I was told that an inefficient speaker would be best for situations around the house... 1) is this true? If you answered "yes," please proceed to question 2.
    2) Do you make anything like this? If you answered "yes," please proceed to question 3.
    3) What would sound best in a Germino Classic 45 2x12?
     
  12. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    Greg would be the best one to answer that question for you. If I were to speculate on it, he would probably say the Heritage 20w G12M ($180 or so on the net) or my Scumback M75 (currently on sale, BTW).

    He'll dial you in, though, so call or email him, and get the straight scoop right from the source. He likes both, I know that, for different reasons. Tell him what you're playing style is, guitar/pups, etc. and go from there. Hope that helps... good luck!
     
  13. doctord02

    doctord02 Member

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    I'm the client Jim is referring to above. I totally love the HP version of the H55, and depending on what your needs are would highly reccomend this speaker. I really liked his regular 30 watt H55 speaker, but I'm on a single 12 cab kick these days, so I needed something that would hold up to a ~50 watt amp head.

    Soundwise it's a litle tighter in the bass then his standard H55, which is typical of higher powered voice coils.
     
  14. pluto

    pluto Member

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    thanks Jim, email sent. Mark
     
  15. muddy

    muddy Member

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    i gettin' a little muddled tryin' to work out what's what, so maybe you can do it for me, jim. 1st, which of your drivers is the equivalent of the 60's 25 watt greenback. it LOOKS like it'd be either the SA12M-75 or the SA12M-55.

    and 2nd, the equivalent of the G12S-50? the closest to this would SEEM to be the SA12M-LHDC or the SA12-LHDC, no?

    i want to pair these 2 speaks in a 16ohm cab for a soultone revolution 45 (jtm45-type).

    http://www.soultoneamps.com/products.html


    ml
     
  16. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    muddy, didn't you email me on this already? Let me know, if not, but someone out there is reading your thoughts if not! LOL

    The M75 is the recreation of the Greenback G12M T1221 75 hz lead cone. The M55 is the recreation of the T1511 G12M 55hz bass cone. The G12S-50, I have four of them, be happy to sell you one, if you like (that one I have no direct equivalent Scumback for, although the LHDC would be the closest, in a 30 watt model).
     
  17. muddy

    muddy Member

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    yeah, it's me. just thought i might ketch ya quicker here. :D so tell me then, which greenie woulda been clapton's cream era/100watt period, & which woulda been jimi's (between the lead & bass cone's)?


    ml
     
  18. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    That is not ENTIRELY certain, sir. Both used 100 logo'd cabs. Hendrix was reported to be a 55hz fan and from what I can determine of Clapton, he used the 75hz models. The problem is that depending on who you talk to, they might have had either G12M's or G12H's, as Marshall sent them out with any of those four speakers installed.

    To my ears, going closed back with a Strat, a Plexi head and his fx, I think Jimi used the G12H30 55hz speakers (Scumback H55 model equivalent), but EC sounded more like a G12H30 75hz player tone to me. Of course, this is my ears doing the judging. Hopefully a search online might clarify that, but I've never found any more info than "100" logo cabs, which, as I noted above, still left you with four speaker choices.
     
  19. Pedro58

    Pedro58 Supporting Member

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    So, what if you want a 2X12 that will work with both Strats and Les Pauls? A mix or two of one style? I'm curious, too!
     
  20. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    That's exactly what I do. An H75/H55 mix in both my open and closed back cabs, since I have both LP's and a Strat. Pretty much covers it all. You could also do the M75/M55 mix if you like it more mids focused, with less output (meaning lower db/less volume/less efficient).
     

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