• New Sponsor: ShipNerd, Ship Your Gear with Us... for less! Click Here.

send demo to record company

Messages
1,988
I have no proof yet, but my feeling is the major labels are paid out differently since they are sort of in bed with the likes of Spotify. As the rights holders along with early buy in to set the path for everyone to follow, once you hit a different tier of streams I think it's exponential the royalties. Then again having lots of money for promo, including click farms that react as not the same person/IP address playing a track.
That's my impression as well. The algorithm for payout is kind of a black box as far as I know.
 
Messages
1,102
You're kind of saying you have to chose between fame or money...which doesn't really make sense.
It was actually a quote, not my saying. But it made sense to me at the time, and not necessarily in an absolutely literal sense. It's about what drives you, and people should understand that about themselves. Or at least think about it.

One of the most honest quotes I ever heard was in one of those VH-1 Behind the Music things on Poison, who unfortunately raised their head when I was in college and playing covers.

The bass player said (maybe paraphrased) "I never wanted to be a musician. I wanted to be a rock star."
 

VESmedic

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
260
Dude... you keep asking questions but have failed to answer a single one asked about yourself.

Everything is situational. There are no stock, easy answers.

Are you a solo artist? Guy with guitar or do you have a band? What genre of music? Do you live in a city or a small town of 2000 people? Are you 17 or 37?

All these things make a difference.

None of this is a dig, even the age question. If your 17 then maybe you can do some things that someone who's 37 isn't in a position to do. Likewise if your 37 then maybe your in a different life position with regards to free time & disposable income and can do things a 17 year old can't...

If you want to get somewhere with music and have a career there are endless possibilities. But you need to put yourself out there, start to network, find friends and collaborators.

Said it a few times and only once more. Nobody goes anywhere working entirely on their own out of a bedroom studio.

All of this… there’s so many ways of going about it… I would highly suggest not joining a “band” and getting into the “band mentality”, if your goal is about you making it. Bands come with headaches, there’s a reason, whether you disagree with it or not, Nashville and LA and music towns often work this way….

if you sing. Write your own songs, find the best musicians in town and PAY them to play your songs and back you…a backing band.You have full control, and can do as you please.

This is a BUSINESS. Leave your heart strings at the door. The dudes and girls who make it in this business do so because they become extremely business savvy. Two different sides of the brain here. Your artistic side isn’t going to carry you into being the next chris Stapleton. So forget all of that right now. Learn how to be business oriented, pay people to do as you tell them, just like hiring a carpenter or an electrician. That’s the first step I would be looking at, and is generally what the guys I’ve played with venture into doing first..

Also… learn to write songs… you wanna make money? The songwriters ( successful ones) are the ones living LARGE in towns like Nashville and LA. Be a cool hang, meet people, MOVE TO A MUSIC TOWN. If you aren’t in LA or Nashville etc, no one is gonna care about you. It’s true, and the truth hurts. Those towns are very much “ you gotta be here” type towns… connect with people. Go up there, learn how to hang, make friends, and get in on co-writes. This is literally what everyone in Nashville did or has done. The artist I played with, his cousin has 5 number ones, including luke combs “hurricane” under his belt. That’s what he did. And learned how to get in with the right people… this right here, will go farther than anything, I promise you that.

Don’t think the hang can make it or break it? Let me tell you a story…

Kelsea ballerini’s first number one was “ love me like ya mean it”, and I believe it was a 4 or 5 way write. One of the guys that is credited in the write didn’t contribute much, was just a friend, ordering pizza etc, hanging with his boys etc. well. That song went number one. Boom: 500-750k for the writers, easily. So the writers put the friend on the credits as well. Why? Because that’s Nashville etiquette. Had they not, if that guy had found himself in a situation to bring in writers on a big hit, you think he would be calling those guys who left him out to dry? Not a chance… and now, they ALL are in more prestigious and inclusive writing circles, that you and I could never get into just by showing up in to town.

move to a music town. Make friends. It’s the easiest way to learn about what you are actually getting into.
 

Miroslav L

Member
Messages
2,249
It was actually a quote, not my saying. But it made sense to me at the time, and not necessarily in an absolutely literal sense. It's about what drives you, and people should understand that about themselves. Or at least think about it.

One of the most honest quotes I ever heard was in one of those VH-1 Behind the Music things on Poison, who unfortunately raised their head when I was in college and playing covers.

The bass player said (maybe paraphrased) "I never wanted to be a musician. I wanted to be a rock star."
Yes, for sure. Find what is important to you, and then how to go for it.

Funny about the quote.
Mine is this one, "I never planned on building a recording studio, I just wanted to write some songs." :D

The last band I was in, before I walked away from it...we had a lot going for us, and there was that brief moment when we could have made a few different choices, and possibly taken in to a higher level, because not a lot of band were into doing originals, it was mostly a cover band circuit...but then, like many bands, we broke up when things were just getting good...and we did it for stupid reasons.

After that...I moved into the studio world, and got a good day job that has paid for all of it...and now, I'm free to get back 100% to the music, and so it's like I'm back at the beginning, and planning to get another band going soon...originals again.
 

Miroslav L

Member
Messages
2,249
All of this… there’s so many ways of going about it… I would highly suggest not joining a “band” and getting into the “band mentality”, if your goal is about you making it. Bands come with headaches, there’s a reason, whether you disagree with it or not, Nashville and LA and music towns often work this way….

if you sing. Write your own songs, find the best musicians in town and PAY them to play your songs and back you…a backing band.You have full control, and can do as you please.

This is a BUSINESS. Leave your heart strings at the door. The dudes and girls who make it in this business do so because they become extremely business savvy. Two different sides of the brain here. Your artistic side isn’t going to carry you into being the next chris Stapleton. So forget all of that right now. Learn how to be business oriented, pay people to do as you tell them, just like hiring a carpenter or an electrician. That’s the first step I would be looking at, and is generally what the guys I’ve played with venture into doing first..

Also… learn to write songs… you wanna make money? The songwriters ( successful ones) are the ones living LARGE in towns like Nashville and LA. Be a cool hang, meet people, MOVE TO A MUSIC TOWN. If you aren’t in LA or Nashville etc, no one is gonna care about you. It’s true, and the truth hurts. Those towns are very much “ you gotta be here” type towns… connect with people. Go up there, learn how to hang, make friends, and get in on co-writes. This is literally what everyone in Nashville did or has done. The artist I played with, his cousin has 5 number ones, including luke combs “hurricane” under his belt. That’s what he did. And learned how to get in with the right people… this right here, will go farther than anything, I promise you that.

Don’t think the hang can make it or break it? Let me tell you a story…

Kelsea ballerini’s first number one was “ love me like ya mean it”, and I believe it was a 4 or 5 way write. One of the guys that is credited in the write didn’t contribute much, was just a friend, ordering pizza etc, hanging with his boys etc. well. That song went number one. Boom: 500-750k for the writers, easily. So the writers put the friend on the credits as well. Why? Because that’s Nashville etiquette. Had they not, if that guy had found himself in a situation to bring in writers on a big hit, you think he would be calling those guys who left him out to dry? Not a chance… and now, they ALL are in more prestigious and inclusive writing circles, that you and I could never get into just by showing up in to town.

move to a music town. Make friends. It’s the easiest way to learn about what you are actually getting into.
All that is true...but I think unless your a younger guy/gal, with no real ties, not much positive outlook or and responsibilities at your current location, where you can just pack up and move to LA or Nashville...it's not realistic to just move in order to be in the thick of it all.
Not to mention...10,000 other people just thought of doing that before you, so those places are flush with people looking for connections. It's not any kind of sure thing that being there gets you more opportunities.
Not to mention...there are a LOT of musicians and songwriters nationwide...they are not all living in LA or Nashville.

Now with the songwriting, and that's something I was getting at earlier...how to shop your music, if you're not mainly looking to shop yourself or your band as an artist...?
I know Nashville these days probably has the lion's share of publishers...but even getting to them, you have to get in line, behind the other 20,000 songwriters who got there before you.

So with just the songwriting in mind, and getting back to the posting online discussion...I would think that the internet makes it less necessary to show up in front of some door, and hope you can stick your foot in it when someone walks out.
Not all artists write songs...and not all artist that do, write nothing but good songs...so there must be avenues for that, that are less difficult than also trying to shop the artist/band on top of the music...???
 

VESmedic

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
260
All that is true...but I think unless your a younger guy/gal, with no real ties, not much positive outlook or and responsibilities at your current location, where you can just pack up and move to LA or Nashville...it's not realistic to just move in order to be in the thick of it all.
Not to mention...10,000 other people just thought of doing that before you, so those places are flush with people looking for connections. It's not any kind of sure thing that being there gets you more opportunities.
Not to mention...there are a LOT of musicians and songwriters nationwide...they are not all living in LA or Nashville.

Now with the songwriting, and that's something I was getting at earlier...how to shop your music, if you're not mainly looking to shop yourself or your band as an artist...?
I know Nashville these days probably has the lion's share of publishers...but even getting to them, you have to get in line, behind the other 20,000 songwriters who got there before you.

So with just the songwriting in mind, and getting back to the posting online discussion...I would think that the internet makes it less necessary to show up in front of some door, and hope you can stick your foot in it when someone walks out.
Not all artists write songs...and not all artist that do, write nothing but good songs...so there must be avenues for that, that are less difficult than also trying to shop the artist/band on top of the music...???
I get what you’re saying… but this guy is pretty green to all of this, and may not understand all of this as well…

And I agree, it’s NOT easy to just pick up and move…. But it depends on how bad you want it. Cliche answer, but it’s the reality. It may be difficult, and not realistic, but life is about sacrifice and decisions sometimes for sure. And again, it’s much easier than people think to get in with the right people there once you start learning who people are. It’s a very, very small circle, and one that’s extremely easily accessible in my experience once you learn the town a bit. This is unique to Nashville for sure.

but this is also why I said, go up there when you can and hang, then come home. Do it again when you can afford to do it again, and again. Almost all of the successful writers I knew did just that, and did it for a long time before they committed to moving there. Many leave the town, but still do the same thing. It’s a way to keep your foot in the door, because like you said, with so many people moving there daily ( Nashville specifically), if you don’t do something along these lines, you are forgotten about before your plane even leaves the Ground.

Im not saying it’ll work for everyone, but literally everyone I know that is active in town, this is the general approach. You NEED to see how the industry works and learn about it, just like you do with any profession. This is the only real way to do it. Nashville is unique because the labels, publishers, studios, writers, and every aspect of the business model that is music, is all within a few blocks of each other. Something LA and others can’t say even. Things happen fast, real fast there. And you need to see it in action if you have a prayer of doing something like this. It’s very apparent to me when I talk to artists and musicians who really have no clue how it works because they only know their state or region. They may have been doing it for years, but they are so far off the mark with understanding how it really works, because they’ve never seen it in action..

Not to mention, Nashville is insane, what an awesome town all around. It’s never a bad choice to go an experience that for a few years
At the very least.
 
Last edited:
Messages
1,934
That's kinda my point. So they weren't as well off as everyone thought.
Scott Swift is very wealthy and successful.

Swift Financial Group

Her mother pulled in at least $100,000 a year through her job as a Mutual Fund Marketing Executive

Probably a combined household income of at least a half a million a year... which is somewhere between the top 1-5% nationally and in the top 1% in Pennsylvania. Enough money to easily own a yacht, multiple vacation homes and be able to send Taylor to any school on the planet.
 
Messages
1,102
Yes, for sure. Find what is important to you, and then how to go for it.

Funny about the quote.
Mine is this one, "I never planned on building a recording studio, I just wanted to write some songs." :D

After that...I moved into the studio world, and got a good day job that has paid for all of it...and now, I'm free to get back 100% to the music, and so it's like I'm back at the beginning, and planning to get another band going soon...originals again.
Same here, except I just wanted to record my acoustic solo pieces. First thing I ever produced was a gift to those that attended our wedding....22 years ago. Everyone loved it, and I distinctly remember saying "this will never be a full time job, just a hobby."

15 years ago I walked away from 2 solid careers to do this stuff full-time. It happens. Not sure how, but it does, lol.

I also have a band that does originals, and played for another all original band for a few years until last year--best of luck in that arena. It's the only way to go for me.
 
Messages
1,102
Im not saying it’ll work for everyone, but literally everyone I know that is active in town, this is the general approach. You NEED to see how the industry works and learn about it, just like you do with any profession. This is the only real way to do it. Nashville is unique because the labels, publishers, studios, writers, and every aspect of the business model that is music, is all within a few blocks of each other. Something LA and others can’t say even. Things happen fast, real fast there. And you need to see it in action if you have a prayer of doing something like this. It’s very apparent to me when I talk to artists and musicians who really have no clue how it works because they only know their state or region. They may have been doing it for years, but they are so far off the mark with understanding how it really works, because they’ve never seen it in action..
Yeah, have a friend/client who had national success as a singer/songwriter, moved to Nashville, and learned quickly you had to be in the "in crowd". Even made a "Nashville record" with an A-list production team to prove he was for real.

I always say "if I was 18 that's where I'd be". But I'll be 54 this year, and take my lumps to live where I want to. I did all my bold moves for my prior careers. Maybe should have saved one.

But there's no mistaking what you say--heard it too many times.
 

jmoose

Member
Messages
4,992
Yeah, have a friend/client who had national success as a singer/songwriter, moved to Nashville, and learned quickly you had to be in the "in crowd". Even made a "Nashville record" with an A-list production team to prove he was for real.

I don't think anyone automatically needs to move to a "music town" to have a career. Not these days.

Nashville might be one of if not the last big centers but right, there's a very specific thing that happens in town. And if you want to be a part of that system and style then sure, you need to move there. But if you want to do something else then moving could be the wrong thing and set you back.

To put it one way, its very likely nobody in Nashville is gonna care about your prog metal band.
 

VESmedic

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
260
I don't think anyone automatically needs to move to a "music town" to have a career. Not these days.

Nashville might be one of if not the last big centers but right, there's a very specific thing that happens in town. And if you want to be a part of that system and style then sure, you need to move there. But if you want to do something else then moving could be the wrong thing and set you back.

To put it one way, its very likely nobody in Nashville is gonna care about your prog metal band.

no offense…. But if you haven’t done anything like that ( maybe you have?) it’s easy to make assumptions without actually having lived there or having that experience to make an opinion off of. And for what it’s worth, yes maybe the Metal scene isn’t what you think it would be ( surprise though), however, it’s not about “scenes”. It’s about having access to the best of the best the entire music industry has to offer. It’s not just about country. Hell one of my best friends is arguably one of the top 4-5 producers for the heaviest metal around, and he left Florida ( the death metal capital at one point) and has been in Nashville for 3-4 years producing records. And that’s what I’m saying, it doesn’t matter what you wanna play, the entire aspect of the music industry is in one place. George strait and Luke Bryan aren’t the only ones who record and do business in Nashville.

also, just about every musician who plays either on Broadway, or has a touring artist gig is a metal head to the max. They just realize you can’t play metal and make a real living anymore, or very very few due.But that’s not what I’m talking about doing here either. But again, many people start out playing guitar,eventually get a good gig, eventually realize they are in circles no one else can get access to at that level, write some songs with some big dogs, and eventually do their own thing…. Ask Jason aldeans guitarist Kurt Allison: he’s got a credit with Atleast one number one hit ( or maybe more now) with seein red by Dustin lynch… and NONE of that would’ve been possible had he not been in that town. It just wouldn’t, period.

if you want to”do something else” ( not sure what that means here) you can do it in Nashville, and have all the resources there to get what you want. In a town where literally everyone plays, writes, produces etc, you are going to have access to more actual and real information than the internet could ever provide you. I thought I knew a few things… until I moved there.Again, it’s just like any industry, you go to where the epicenter is. You can do whatever you want in your home town, sure. But don’t expect it to go as far as it could with the resources a music town can provide you, or the invaluable knowledge.
 

jmoose

Member
Messages
4,992
I've spent time in Nashville. Have friends there too including a bassist I've known for 20 years. Great player. Easy hang he works a lot. Long ago in a galaxy far away I was offered & turned down a job at a now infamous studio.

But you kinda reinforced my point... and it's not about metal.

There's a zillion players in town yup. And if they wanna work? It's corporate country and writers in the round.

People there love all kinds of music but the town itself doesn't have love for your demented bebop Coltrane tunes...

That young woman who's kinda weird and channeling Bjork? Probably not gonna fly either.

Would a group like the Flaming Lips or Ween honestly ever get a deal in Nashville?

We can all thank Satan that Dean & Gene Ween never left small town New Hope Pennsylvania.

If they had moved to Nashville in search of a record deal quite possibly they'd be completely unknown and spent their remaining days deep sea fishing.
 

Captngeetch

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,609
Still no answer to the questions asked over and over. Age, Genre, Solo or Group, example of the material etc. And we are 4 pages deep now.
 

Billinder33

Member
Messages
2,178
He wrote that song Old Town Road (rap / country) that was EVERYWHERE last year (or was it 2 years ago). HORRIBLE song. But the next thing you know, he's at the Grammy's, re-recording it will Billy Ray Cyrus, etc.
The Movie Clip, Official Video, and Remix have just under 2 billion views on YouTube combined.

Absolutely incredible.
 

blackbird

Member
Messages
410
Are you a solo artist? Guy with guitar or do you have a band? What genre of music? Do you live in a city or a small town of 2000 people? Are you 17 or 37?
I'm almost just at the middle ,late twenties, male , solo artist , write my songs, sing and play the instruments I need and If I need someone to record something else for me I ask someone to help me , friend or pay someone .
Genre ... well really I don't know. It's not pop or rock , something in between I guess. Not folk or country either .
Pop would be more accurate than rock but it's not Pop either.
I live in a city and would not move since I know I have some audience so I can start playing live to people that aren't friends or friends of friends.
I have a job but quit anytime I'll think I should.

I keep asking questions to gain most I can and I have to admit , all these answers were more than I could ask for.
Thanks to everyone . I'll start making some good recordings so you'll hear my stuff in case anyone is hopefully interested.

After reading all you had to say I decided to record 5-10 songs the best way I can and think about it again in 5-6 months.
 
Last edited:

eddie knuckles

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
1,761
Making money is not what I asked about or really interested. Ofc making a living playing is a dream but not what I'm after , although if it ever happens , even for a while will be great.
My question was how and if would be possible to have a record company interested so my music will be listened by more people.
You may be asking yourself the wrong question(s) - Look at Ani DiFranco, Laurie Anderson, Lake Street Dive, Snarky Puppy, Vulfpeck...
If you enjoy creating music , create music. Create more and learn. If you are looking to market yourself, that is an entirely different discussion.

Just because you strike a record deal, it doesn't mean you will ever be heard by the right people (or anyone at all).

Record companies can and will take your money and not really help put your music out there. Why pay for that? If you don't do it yourself, you HAVE to pay people to market and distribute your brand.
Create, distribute, license, sell, promote... rinse and repeat. Having fun yet? Do what makes you happy first. Hone your craft. What is it about you being heard that is so important? Serious questions, brutal honesty, keep learning.
 

Billinder33

Member
Messages
2,178
Just for clarity...when you (or some) talk about YouTubers and making money...what kind of content are they providing?
I'm mostly interested in music. If it's some one posting all kinds of "reality" videos or other kind of stuff, and generating millions of subs/views...I don't think that's really relative to a conversation about making money off music content.
That's why I asked for a link earlier...because there's a difference in how you make that money.

It's like when people say...you can make a healthy living off the music industry, but it's not from being a musician or an artists...just get a job working in A/V, etc...etc.
OK...those are legit careers...but it's not what most people are shooting for when they are talking about getting somewhere in the music biz.

Oh...what kind of ballpark is a "healthy living" for the YouTuber...?...and I'll ask you the same as the other poster...can you provide a link?
Just trying to get a sense how that compares to other ways to earn a living.
I know some people will say they would rather make YT videos and earn a "healthy living" instead of working in some other field for the same amount of income...but that doesn't apply to everyone.

I worked in TV production for a few years, camera work, editing, live stuff...not a major TV gig, but the work was the same...and I've never been motivated to make YT videos just for the sake of monetizing that skill.
I would rather make music...so that's the real question...making money from making music.

@Miroslav L, This is not a direct response to your post but seemed like a good 'jumping on' point.

The 'Snake Oil' guy (Sea Lion Audio, I think) mentioned that he makes about 40% of his money from YouTube and related activities, 60% from mixing and mastering. He did not state anything in terms of real dollars (Euros), but I'd say by his studio that it's safe to say he's probably making at least $50k-$100k US.

Yes this is mixing/mastering and not artistry, but I think it's instructive. The YouTube exposure has certainly helped his core business, and is undoubtedly driving work his direction. I'm sure the same is true for Streaky, who is probably the top mastering engineer YouTube star (talk about a niche of a niche!!).

So back to the OP..... as an artist, the lesson that can be learned is YouTube and other streaming media is just as much or very much more of an advertising medium than it is a revenue stream. And while you may not be able to reuse music you've posted there for any music label or publishing, it's probably the best way to get noticed as you build contacts, following and go about your way to your final destination as an artist. If you are an up and coming musician, you will need to be a prolific writer who knows how to churn out good songs on the regular anyhow, so there's probably no harm in using streaming media to get your art out there. You're selling YOU, not the songs you post, and that may necessitate content that goes beyond just posting your songs.
 




Trending Topics

Top Bottom