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Serious Question. What is it about this place and Van Halen?

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4,400
I've seen this before. Someone went to college, discovered jazz, and is now musically and intellectually superior to his musical brethren. You know what they say the difference is between a rock guitarist and a jazz guitarist, right?

A rock guitarist plays three chords to 1,000 people...
 

I Am Misery

Member
Messages
3,220
I've seen this before. Someone went to college, discovered jazz, and is now musically and intellectually superior to his musical brethren. You know what they say the difference is between a rock guitarist and a jazz guitarist, right?

A rock guitarist plays three chords to 1,000 people...
i don't like jazz or Van Halen. their fans are even worse.
 

Gibson Dog

Gold Supporting Member
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1,412
You'd have a better point here if you talked about Iron Maiden or Judas Priest who embraced the look, but nobody considers them in the same genre as the glam/pop metal scene.

Rush was doing the hip sports jacket and skinny tie thing in the 80's. They looked more new wave than anything rock or metal. Their cheesy look was the epic kimono look in the 70s. That was about the time Sabbath was shooting that Sabotage album cover, and Judas Priest looked like flower children. That's three bands that (generally) get respect around here, but man they all went through some pretty wild-and-weird looks! :)

EDIT: I played metal throughout the 80's and had long hair. However, I never wore makeup or spandex, or leather for that matter. I was pretty boring: blue jeans and a t-shirt, with some high top sneakers (white, of course). Of course, I wasn't doing anything on the poppish end of metal, even remotely.
Hey I had the giant kimono poster of Rush on my wall! I think I'm saying the same thing you are or maybe I remember things &/or had a different experience than everyone else, I didn't. I don't remember hearing the term or genre 'hair metal' until way after the fact.

My point is the majority of bands went through a phase that was just a sign of the times. To us people were trying to do whatever they could to get signed but all the music was just Rock n' Roll to us, I guess you had to be there. 90% of those bands were gone or dressed the way people dressed in the 90's & then the 2000's until now. At that exact same time X, The Cramps, The Blasters etc were playing at the same time & it was a lot of the same people at all those shows it was just music. It was totally normal to go see Bitch & Ratt - then go down the street & see X. The first time I saw the Chili Peppers they opened for Y&T - I think at the Scream.

Anyway I feel the same way now as I have my whole life music is music & if it sounds good to me I buy it, listen to it & I still go to a lot of shows all these years later. That part is WAY different but that's a subject that will never be discussed publicly!
 

rstites

Member
Messages
1,631
Hey I had the giant kimono poster of Rush on my wall! I think I'm saying the same thing you are or maybe I remember things &/or had a different experience than everyone else, I didn't. I don't remember hearing the term or genre 'hair metal' until way after the fact.
We are. I was just noting that those other bands had the exact same look as the "hair metal" bands and the exact same time, and yet people respect their music now. Yes, the term "hair metal" isn't something that was used until a decade or more after the fact. At the time, we'd use the term "glam metal" or "pop metal" which wasn't nearly so derogatory.

There's a lot of retroactive separation of these into discrete bins that wasn't the reality of the time. I definitely was over in the heavier end of things, but still went to see Crue, Ratt, KISS, Def Leppard, etc. in the 80's, and had a great time. I lost contact with the glam side of things later in the decade. (I note several videos linked above for bands I don't recognize.)
 

dhdfoster

Gold Supporting Member
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13,082
I've seen this before. Someone went to college, discovered jazz, and is now musically and intellectually superior to his musical brethren. You know what they say the difference is between a rock guitarist and a jazz guitarist, right?

A rock guitarist plays three chords to 1,000 people...
Are you saying people who don’t like hair metal must love jazz and think they are too good for rock? There’s a lot of great music between jazz and hair metal.
 

Coalface1971

Member
Messages
638
Wasn't called "Hair Metal" when I was kid, rather "Pop Metal" to distinguish from the heavier side of things (Sabbath, Dio etc. and the growth of the thrash scene - I liked it all btw).

There were people who didn't like the stuff (and that's great, because the 80's and early 90's had more musical variety commercially like no other era since, the record industry was pre CD, so was huge and had something for everyone), but seems to me many who pick the genre apart either didn't live during the times.

Jeez, go back to those times and check out what Madonna and U2 looked like and what they were doing back then - it was a different scene.

And can't get my head around why it's an issue to write and sings songs about having fun, enjoying the opposite sex, while playing your instrument really well.

I was 18 years old in '89, and me and all of my friends/peers thought the 70's sucked!
 

blueworm

Member
Messages
3,192
I've seen this before. Someone went to college, discovered jazz, and is now musically and intellectually superior to his musical brethren. You know what they say the difference is between a rock guitarist and a jazz guitarist, right?

A rock guitarist plays three chords to 1,000 people...
Sure .... you don't like EVH = you're a jazz nerd.

The sense of nuance of TGP never ceases to amaze me :rolleyes:
 

Pahom

Member
Messages
227
VH is to TGP what the Beatles music is to nursing homes.

VH in my opinion is the greatest American rock band of all time. No other rock band comes close.

Never cared for the Beatles but I can appreciate George Martin's skill as a composer. Maybe if I saw the Beatles live, my feelings toward the band and their music would be different.

Anyone who saw VH live in the late 70s to mid 80s would never ask why the band is so popular.
 
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Gibson Dog

Gold Supporting Member
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1,412
We are. I was just noting that those other bands had the exact same look as the "hair metal" bands and the exact same time, and yet people respect their music now. Yes, the term "hair metal" isn't something that was used until a decade or more after the fact. At the time, we'd use the term "glam metal" or "pop metal" which wasn't nearly so derogatory.

There's a lot of retroactive separation of these into discrete bins that wasn't the reality of the time. I definitely was over in the heavier end of things, but still went to see Crue, Ratt, KISS, Def Leppard, etc. in the 80's, and had a great time. I lost contact with the glam side of things later in the decade. (I note several videos linked above for bands I don't recognize.)
Yeah man my only point was if you're going to create a genre then I guess Priest, Maiden, Van Halen are hair metal bands to a lot of people.

Glam I did hear & I think that's what people considered Motley.

Like you I knew all those guys & have seen them all a million times. I was crazy into Thin Lizzy, Zeppelin, Queen & that still hasn't changed. I was & still am a massive Y&T, Kings X & Tesla fan (Tesla & Kings X are doing great right now.) Also if you haven't heard KXM definitely check them out. Dug Pinnick, George Lynch & Ray Luzier they just put out their 3rd record & have never played live. The records are killer! I was like you more into the heavier stuff like I said I love Y&T & Dave can still sing & play his ass off! Riot (not quiet riot,) Tygers of Pan Tang, I bought & still have Loudness first record it's in Japanese. Maidens first show here was Killers they opened for UFO at Long Beach Arena thousands of shows later I'll never forget that one. Def Leppard's first show here they opened for Blackfoot at the Troubadour LOL , they were heavy as hell! I could go on all night but it's time to play a little & get ready for a marathon 4 days of guitar playing & sports!!
 

buddaman71

Student of Life
Gold Supporting Member
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12,785
I loathed hair metal. But the guitar playing certainly wasn’t the problem. That was the one redeeming quality, actually.
for me, its the horribly cringeworthy lyrics in most cases. also, the Slaughter-style screech vocals. i clicked on hair metal nation on XM the other day scrolling thru and listened for a few minutes. I was 17 in 88, so I’m that demographic, but I couldn’t take much. It hasn’t aged well.
 

Ramboorider

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
883
Thanks for this comment...In my opinion this is the perfect example of the divide in guitarist culture.

yes, there is a divide and Im from the group of players that use Marshall Plexi amplification and a Fire-Breathing Humbucker...
and the other group of players dont palm mute.. Which actually requires quite a bit of talent. Us "Metal Players"generally have a more expanded use of the fretboard. We employ octaves, arpeggios, modes in our playing versus cowboy chords mixed with a quack or super clean bell-tones ( which is also artistic in its own right ).

Yet, you either read from "the book of Metal" or you read from what came before. EVH wrote that book and my generation ( i was 18years old in 1984 ) are hard rockers. As watered down as Van Halen music is it is still Metal. and there is a difference.

the bands Ramboorider quotes in this comment below...
"the Stones, the Dead, Springsteen, Clapton, The Fabulous Thunderbirds, Beck, Trowe, Dylan, the Allmans, Rory, Little Feat. I’d seen Talking Heads and Tom Petty and George Harrison and Skynyrd and Rod Stewart."

are all "Soft Rock".. and to me Bruce Springsteen is very very boring!!

even today and Im 53yrs old and an accomplished player I subscribe to hard rock players as my influence. such as Satriani, Gilbert, Vai, and other "shredders". Some are more progressive of players than others. I as a child learned "heavy chords" from Iommi and Black Sabbath.. Jimmy Page was the innovator and Zepplin I consider Hard Rock.

There is a lot to explore in Metal guitar playing which has evolved with the instrument ...and most people around here don't really explore the advancements. Anyone every tune to Drop-C ?? How about Killswitch Engage? you likey?

Try learning the Van Halen song Unchained sometime :) its fun
I don't know it's quite as big as a "divide in guitar culture"!!! But, clearly different people like different stuff. I loved the people I mentioned, I loved Hendrix (who I didn't mention because I never saw him), I loved a lot of blues based rock up to Zepplin, but for some reason I never really loved Zep. I liked 'em well enough, I sure as hell HEARD them more than a lot. But some of my friends loved them so much and I didn't. To me, they kind of spawned metal, even if they weren't metal themselves.

And I never liked metal. I admire a lot of metal players for their technique and range, but the music just never did a damn thing for me. I guess I was always much more into rock n'ROLL than just rock. If there wasn't something funky about it that made me want to move my ass (even slowly!), there just wasn't much appeal to me. And I'm NOT an accomplished player! I'm from the BB King school of less is more. I've got some feel for blues and blues/rock, pretty good vibrato and am pretty natural with slides and bends and dynamics, but it's a long way from mastery, even speaking very relatively. And zero speed at all, probably because I just never cared about playing fast. But I can play enough to play he stuff I love and make it sound good to me, with rare moments where it sounds better than good. I kind of live for those. So those are my preferences. At age 60 they're not likely to change a lot. There's plenty of new music I like a lot, but it tends to be cut from the same cloth as the stuff I liked 25-40 years ago. We all like what we like and don't like what we don't like. Se la vie...
 
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Ramboorider

Silver Supporting Member
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883
Anyone who saw VH live in the late 70s to mid 80s would never ask why the band is so popular.
I saw VH live on their first tour and I don't much like them. I mean I don't question why ANYONE is popular - there are zillions of people who like what they like and not all of them like what I like. I respected EVH as an innovative player, for sure - I can't imagine anyone wouldn't. But I never bought their albums (you didn't have to - they were non-stop on the radio) and I never went back to see them again. It was kind of fun, it was a party, but it just wasn't my kind of music. So, you know, saw them in their prime, don't regret it, but they didn't win me over because it's just about how we're wired, not who's "BETTER" than anyone else.

I liked the Beatles pretty well but never loved them. But the STONES, to me were the embodiment of everything I loved about rock 'n ROLL. I had to have that roll in there. VH didn't have that. They never made me want to boogie, they just made me want to twiddle my fingers really fast and play air guitar.
 

killer blues

Member
Messages
3,051
They had all the necessary ingredients to be a great band. They killed it when they hit the scene. They had a new sound. There was something for the guys and gals. As much as I loved eddies playing i wasnt particularly fond of his solo arrangements. DLR sounded like sinatra on steroids to me. But there is no denying they were one of the most significant bands in rock history.
 
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