Session Drums? BFD? Whaddy'all like?

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by decay-o-caster, Mar 4, 2008.

  1. decay-o-caster

    decay-o-caster Member

    Messages:
    7,415
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    The Greater San Jose Metroplex
    For Ableton Live 7. I'd be "playing" the drums with a Trigger Finger or a keyboard. I'm not happy with the drums that come with Ableton - they don't sound natural when you play a rhythm on them, though individual hits are okay.

    So anyway, what's a good midi-triggerable drum solution?

    TIA - dk
     
  2. gixxerrock

    gixxerrock Member

    Messages:
    3,724
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2005
    Location:
    Parksville, B.C.
    I use an Akai MPD16 for triggering and Addictive Drums for natural sounding drums. Totally happy with that combo.
     
  3. dougb415

    dougb415 Member

    Messages:
    9,489
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Location:
    On the farm, an hour south of Nashville
    What DAW are you using? I'm assuming that you are recording the audio output from AD and not the MIDI, correct?
     
  4. decay-o-caster

    decay-o-caster Member

    Messages:
    7,415
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    The Greater San Jose Metroplex
    Currently I'm using the audio output from the rhythm track of an AdrenalinnIII into Ableton Live 7 synched with the midi out of Live, but when I find drum software that works, I'll be recording the midi in Live and running it through midi kits.

    What I really want is to "play" the drums myself - not that I'm a drummer or have any sense of time (it was removed surgically after... the accident...), but I just would rather say I came up with the parts. I guess if I built the parts on a machine that'd be close, but I like the lack of precision for the music I do - I ain't exactly Rush.
     
  5. djbrough

    djbrough Member

    Messages:
    429
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Location:
    The ATL
    I'm a BFD user, and I love it. BFD 2 Just came out, and addresses a lot of the concerns from the first version. they also have a very active support staff. You can't loose with it.

    Also check out drum kit from hell superior. The new one comes out this fall.
     
  6. duffyguitarman

    duffyguitarman Member

    Messages:
    1,445
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2005
    Location:
    Metro Detroit, MI USA

    Ahh, I was just about to say how many problems I had with using BFD, and just gave up. Many I have talked to had similar experiences. Looks like they have got some things taken care of. Will have to check that out again.
     
  7. driches

    driches Member

    Messages:
    151
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2006
    i have BFD 1 and really love it. i just input the notes into pro tools via the pencil tool; i tried triggering with a midi keyboard but stopped when i realized i would have to correct all the notes anyway since my "playing" was so bad!

    I'm curious--what are the issues you guys found with it that BFD 2 addresses?
     
  8. mds

    mds Member

    Messages:
    1,188
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I really like Toontrack's EZ Drummer and various drum kits. Check them out...
     
  9. Rusty G.

    Rusty G. Member

    Messages:
    3,084
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Location:
    Lafayette, LA
    I've got BFD and just got a new Zendrum Zap. It's a midi controller for drum sounds and it's about a foot by a foot. I'm not really a drummer, although I have a real set, a Roland TD-6sx set and now the BFD. Problem with the real set was getting a good sound. Problem with the Roland was getting a real sound out of their module.

    BFD sounds like a real drum. . .Now, I've got to learn the Zendrum a little better and hopefully, I'll be able to make real enough sounding drum tracks. The thing about using pads, like trigger finger and I forgot, I've also got the Korg Control, which is some more drum pads. They don't work worth a $^&(#&!!! They're not anywhere as velocity sensitive as the Zendrum Zap. Hopefully I'll get around to posting some tracks as I learn to play the Zendrum better.
     
  10. gixxerrock

    gixxerrock Member

    Messages:
    3,724
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2005
    Location:
    Parksville, B.C.
    I'm using Addictive Drums as a soft synth plugin in Logic or Cubase. The MPD16 is just used as a MIDI input device. The MIDI patterns that come with AD, are ok, but that is not its forte. AD's real strength is great sounding acoustic drums and a great user interface to tweak them and make them fit into the track. They have a free downloadable demo.

    Shawn.
     
  11. dougb415

    dougb415 Member

    Messages:
    9,489
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Location:
    On the farm, an hour south of Nashville
    Shawn,

    Thanks for the reply. I'm probably going to with a set of Roland vdrums as the MIDI interface and want to use AD as the sound source. Was it easy to map?
     
  12. gixxerrock

    gixxerrock Member

    Messages:
    3,724
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2005
    Location:
    Parksville, B.C.
    To be honest, I haven't really remapped them. I have remapped my MIDI source (MPD16) occasionally and that was really easy. I am pretty sure AD can remap them as can Logic.

    The drums do not follow a general midi mapping. There are actually a whole pile of different hits for things like HH and Ride for different positions. Once I have all my MIDI data, I will just move it around in the piano roll view until it sounds right, then start tweaking the kit (swapping pieces, adding more compression, mixing mics etc...)

    It might be best to track the MIDI to your click using the VDrum voices in your mix, then do the mappings and put together the kit when mixing. That way, there is no latency. I highly recommend downloading the demo. Other than having a small kit and not being able to save, it is full featured. That will let you figure out how it will fit your workflow before you buy.

    Shawn.
     
  13. localmotion411

    localmotion411 Supporting Member

    Messages:
    3,395
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2006
    Location:
    Madison, MS
    That Zendrum Zap looks badass. Expensive tho.
     
  14. lespaulreedsmith

    lespaulreedsmith Member

    Messages:
    3,409
    Joined:
    May 12, 2007
    Location:
    where the wind comes sweepin' down the plains
    I use Steinberg's Groove Agent to get the basics of the changes down then use Beta Monkey sampled loops for the real deal.
     
  15. Pat Healy

    Pat Healy Member

    Messages:
    10,959
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I'm a strong believer that all this stuff we use (guitars, keyboards, DAW's with fancy drum plug-ins) should merely be enhancements to / facilitators of the creative process. With that in mind, I am a soon-to-be convert from BFD to Addictive Drums. I've been using BFD for about a year, and I've always found it to be a hindrance to the creative process rather than an enhancement. The drum sounds in BFD are great, but IMO the interface is un-intuitive and difficult to use, to the point that I've actually begun to dread recording with my Pro Tools LE rig.

    I'm not a technical novice - I work in the software industry, build my own PC's, etc. Since I work for a company that builds user interfaces, maybe I'm more picky about how a good one should work.

    At any rate, after surfing around on TGP and other boards for a better solution than BFD, I downloaded the Addictive Drums demo program, and HOLY SMOKES!!! I was instantly Addicted (sorry) and ordered the full version immediately. The drums sound killer, the beats are cool, there's so much flexibility to tweak the sounds, and most of all...it's EASY. So easy my eight year old could use it. I wrote and recorded basic tracks for two new songs in an afternoon with it, more than I've done in the last two months using BFD.

    The sounds are a bit more polished than BFD, but every bit as good in terms of quality, and AD provides FAR more options to tweak, edit, and add effects to the sounds. Keep in mind that this is all based on the DEMO version, which containts maybe 15% of the kit pieces, grooves, and effects of the full version. I cannot wait until the full version gets here.

    Bottom line, if the criteria is "Which program is a better enhancement to the creative process," Addictive Drums wins hands down, at least in my experience. Apparently BFD2 is much easier to use than the current version of BFD, but BFD2 is also twice the price of AD. I'm sold. I have not been this excited about a gear or software purchase in a long time.
     
  16. wstsidela

    wstsidela I'm bonafied Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    9,227
    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Location:
    Temecula, CA
    Hate BFD. Love EZ Drummer. Maybe the new version of BFD is better but I'm hooked on EZD.
     
  17. decay-o-caster

    decay-o-caster Member

    Messages:
    7,415
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    The Greater San Jose Metroplex
    Thanks y'all for the responses. Definitely got some options I hadn't thought about. Keep 'em coming?
     
  18. Platinum Sample

    Platinum Sample Member

    Messages:
    36
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2007
    The main differences:

    BFD2 - 24 bit, streaming audio, leakage, natural sounding with lots of expansion packs, Groove Editor integrated. Improved UI from BFD 1.x and also includes a full mixer with plug-ins. Up to 256 velocity layers supported.

    DFHS - 24 bit, RAM based, full leakage (switchable), natural sounding, version 2.0 should be out around June '08 which supports expansion packs and includes a full mixer with plug-ins and has an improved UI. Groove Player external.

    EZDrummer - 16 bit, RAM based, reduced leakage, fully mix processed drums. Groove player integrated. Expansion packs available.

    Addictive Drums - Data compression, RAM based, no leakage. Groove player integrated. Mixer included. Nice UI. One expansion pack available.

    A nice comparison was posted by Steve MacMillan here.

    Rail
     
  19. decay-o-caster

    decay-o-caster Member

    Messages:
    7,415
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    The Greater San Jose Metroplex
    Wow - great breakdown! Thanks Rail!

    So does anyone know anything about Ableton's Session Drums? Being a Live7 guy, the interface seems similar and the package appears to be nicely integrated. Anyone have any experience with that, plus/minus?
     
  20. Nomadgtr

    Nomadgtr Member

    Messages:
    413
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2005
    Location:
    Monument, CO
    I just upgraded to BFD2 recently and I'm very impressed. The new UI is a great improvement and makes it much easier for me at least when working within my DAW application (Sonar 7). While I liked the sounds of the original BFD I found it a bit kludgy on the UI. BFD2 fixes that and also sounds much better. No wonder though, 55Gb of samples vs. 9Gb on the original. Great stuff!!
     

Share This Page