sharp after dive bomb

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by prkaye, Feb 15, 2012.

  1. prkaye

    prkaye Member

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    So I've been experimenting more with the non-floating floyd-rose trem on my new Wolfgang Special. I have an annoying problem now. After I do dive bombs, often some of the strings will remain slightly sharp. Yesterday I had lowered the string hieght on the low-E side of the trem, and this made the problem worse - after a dive bomb, *all* strings would come back more than 10 cents sharp - enough to be noticeable (100 cents = 1 semitone, 5 cents is the threshold of what most people can discern). If I tugged or bent one of the strings, they would all magically return to correct tuning.
    After raising the string height on the low-E side back up again, the problem is now minor, but still detectable with a tuner. Now, after a dive bomb, the G and D strings seem to be returning about 4-5 cents sharp. Again, tugging or bending one of these strings returns the strings into tune.
    This being a non-floating trem (and a brand new one), I am wondering what the cause could be. Any theories? Could lubricating any of the parts on the trem help?
    Thanks!
     
  2. buddastrat

    buddastrat Member

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    Mine did that too on some. It could be the pivot points. It just doesn't want to come all the way back for some reason. Just a quick yank up on the bar would fix it. Try floating it and see how it does, just for experimenting. It's been so long since my Floyd days, I don't really remember what I did to fix that. Try less tension on springs, or more tension...just keep narrowing things down.

    I do remember an annoying thing when I used the Drop D thingy, the other strings would go a little sharp as well, even though the bridge was flush to body. Just the wood, neck moving from change in tension. It was noticeable enough sometimes.
     
  3. prkaye

    prkaye Member

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    Hmmm... I'm not an expert but if the bridge didn't come all the way back, I would think that would leave it flat, not sharp (remember this is a non-floating bridge that rests against the body). The only thing I can think of is the string getting caught up on something when I release the tension, causing it to pull tighter when the bar is released. But I can't understand how this would have caused *all* the strings to go sharp as was previously happening - it seems unlikely that all the strings were catching simultaneously.
    I'm wondering about putting some graphite lubricant on the saddles where the strings pass over them to try to help prevent this...
     
  4. Polyester

    Polyester Member

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    Is your nut binding maybe? Scribble in the string slots with a graphite pencil for a quick fix.
     
  5. J3F

    J3F Member

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    If its got a floyd, it's probably got a locking nut...

    I've never used/owned a floyd that wasn't floating, but I think this can only be one of two things:

    - the knife edges are pitted (take the trem off and have a look at them- they can be re sharpened)

    - the posts are moving. How old is the guitar? Is the body basswood?
     
  6. prkaye

    prkaye Member

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    Locking nut, brand new guitar (I got it from sweetwater a week ago - I did one string change a couple days after getting it).
     
  7. J3F

    J3F Member

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    Hmmm unlikely that the posts are moving then, that usually happens is softer woods after years of abuse....

    If the floyd is flat, how do you adjust the action? Using the posts?
     
  8. prkaye

    prkaye Member

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    Not sure what you mean by "flat" in this context. When I got the guitar from sweetwater it was set up so the pivot post on the low-E side was higher than the post on the high-E side. I lowered the pivot post on the low E side. Other than that I haven't made any adjustments to the action.
     
  9. guitkrazy

    guitkrazy Member

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    Definately check the pivot points. The Wolfgang is not floating- it only goes down- You say you changed a string? Did you change string gauges? be sure to check the springs- you may need to loosen the claw a bit. There are so many factors with Floyd Roses & one very important factor with strings staying in tune is make sure they are thoroughly stretched out. With the pivot points after years of wear & Tear they get marred & out of allignment- I doubt this is the problem on a new guitar- but I put some light lubricant (actually clear chapstix) it keeps them lubed. Good Luck!
     
  10. prkaye

    prkaye Member

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    Meaning they sometimes do it worse when they're new, and somehow "settle in" and behave better after use?

    It came with a set of .009-.046, but I changed them to .009-.042 which I am more used to.

    I actually tightened the claw a bit because when I do large bends it causes the trem to lift off the body a bit. I've ordered extra springs and am going to put a third spring in there. But regardless, I can't see how the springs could cause the strings to go *sharp* after a dive... the springs can't pull the bridge back any further than the body of the guitar that it rests on...

    Again, new strings that haven't stretched would go *flat* as they stretch out. I can't see how new strings would cause this problem of them returning *sharp* after a bend.
     
  11. buddastrat

    buddastrat Member

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    It simply could be too tight in back, and a simple couple turns of the screwdriver for less spring tension might let the trem relax a bit. It could be pulling too tight, and even with less tension, still sit flush to body and work better for you. Just get in there and experiment a bit with setup. Check string seating, everything's locked like it should. A bit of detective work and you'll be fine.
     
  12. J3F

    J3F Member

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    Sorry, I meant non-floating

    If the trem is non floating (ie the springs pull the baseplate of the trem flat against the body of the guitar after use) then adjusting the height of the posts effects how far back the trem goes (to its resting position).

    For example, if you raised the action, the trem would essentially go back further, and the pitch of the strings would rise.

    Also, both posts should ideally be the same height.
     
  13. andyk

    andyk Supporting Member

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    I feel your pain, this has happened since the introduction of the Peavey Wolfgangs! I think the trem resting on the body causes MORE tuning problems than if it was a floating Floyd!

    Try tuning, and pressing on the trem with the heel of your hand. Does it go sharp? If it does, try looking at the trem from the rear, while slowly diving until you see the trem bottom come up. Is it crooked? Get it adjusted (with the posts) so that it sits FLAT on the body. Sitting with one side hitting before the other leads to sharpness when you bend, or dive the trem.

    Very frustrating to me! My 27 year old Jackson stays in tune in the case for months! My 2004 Peavey Wolfie Special goes out of tune all the time.
     
  14. prkaye

    prkaye Member

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    Thanks! I'll definitely try this tonight. It is safe to adjust those posts with the trem under tension, right?
     
  15. prkaye

    prkaye Member

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    I put in some graphite lubricant last night but that seemed to make things worse!
    I have a thoery now. When I did my string changes, I used a pair of pliers to put 90-degree bends in the strings where they go down into the holes in the saddles (where the saddle blocks clamp them). At the time I didn't understand how the system works and that it is critical that the strings be able to slide smoothly over the saddles. Perhaps the pliers marred (scratched) the ends of the strings where they pass over the saddles, and perhaps this is causing the strings to get caught-up. Does this seem like a possible explanation of what I am experiencing?
    I'm going to try new strings today and see if that helps.
     
  16. Mike9

    Mike9 Supporting Member

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    This is a common problem with non floating trems in general. EVH had the same problem and would bend the string (especially the G) after a dive to stretch it back to pitch.
     
  17. prkaye

    prkaye Member

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    I vaguely remember reading that when I was a kid.
    Why is it a common problem with non-floating trems? What is it about them that leads to this?
     
  18. Mike9

    Mike9 Supporting Member

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    I don't remember the specifics exactly, but John Suhr laid it all out in a thread a year, or two ago. It might still be on the server. He's Husky here on TGP.
     
  19. Charvel_ strat_81

    Charvel_ strat_81 Member

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    When a OFR is set to dive only if all the parts are accurate(pivot points,spring tension,locking nut mounting,etc) you should NEVER have a tuning issue even after the most severe trem abuse!
    I play charvels with OFR's and have never had a tuning issue not even with my stock 81 san dimas with a non locking brass trem. I am assuming the trem on this wolf is hard metal? if not soft metal will not stay true at the knife edges and cause tuning probs as well as the post's make sure they are not loose
     
  20. Guitarworks

    Guitarworks Member

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    The only OFR I have floats. Same with other OFRs I've owned. As it is, I've never really had to fuss with strings not returning to pitch with a lock nut. I'm guessing it's knife edges or something with the pivot point.
     

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