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Shiva - new vs. old

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by suhr_rodney, Sep 18, 2006.

  1. suhr_rodney

    suhr_rodney Supporting Member

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    Anyone able to compare the sonic differences of the new vs old Bogner Shiva? Are there any tones that sound better on the old model? Sometimes less is more and the Shiva is a classic. Did Bogner really 'improve' it or will this be one of those things we look back on and say pre-green chassis Shivas are the best? :D
     
  2. sws1

    sws1 Member

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    Everyone already KNOWS that pre-green chassis Shiva's are better.

    More options = more tone-sucking.
     
  3. suhr_rodney

    suhr_rodney Supporting Member

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    In general less is more, I agree. But we are talking about Bogner..... Can you elaborate? Have you played both?
     
  4. 1973Marshall

    1973Marshall Member

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    When buying amps I have compared the Shiva to an Ecstasy, Roccaforte, Matchless, Mojave, and Budda all in the same room and I still preferred the Shiva. Not to say I didn't like them all, but I could only afford one, and the prices on all these amps were high.

    I love the Bogner sound. I am dying to know how you improve the Shiva.

    I have been down to Bogner 2x in the last month and seen the new ones, but never had a chance to play one, darn it!
     
  5. Tone

    Tone Member

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    Were'nt the "upgrades" pretty minimal?
     
  6. wheelman

    wheelman Member

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    I thought consistency was Bogners pholosophy on using curcuit boards.
     
  7. suhr_rodney

    suhr_rodney Supporting Member

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    They added bright switches to both channels, added the boost circuit to channel 1 (when engaged it bypasses the tone stack), made the channel 2 boost variable, and embedded the buffer required for the effects loop. They also added a switch on the rear of the amp to allow channel/boost switching without requiring the footswitch. All in all, mostly minor changes, which is why I would not expect any negative impacts as a result.

    True but out of context with this discussion.
     
  8. sws1

    sws1 Member

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    I suppose I should have added the emoticon at the end of my sentence.

    --Everyone already KNOWS that pre-green chassis Shiva's are better. :)
     
  9. cameron

    cameron Member

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    Is no reverb still an option with Shivas? Or do they all have reverb these days?
     
  10. suhr_rodney

    suhr_rodney Supporting Member

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    Hi Cameron - reverb is still optional on Shivas. I like having it available, but it sure does change the tone. Really helps when trying to approximate the F tone though. On an unrelated note - let me know if you decide to unload that Bogner Cube.... I miss it already. :(
     
  11. cameron

    cameron Member

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    I think I prefer the raw no-reverb circuit. I don't surf, as it were.

    And sorry man, I think I'll be hanging on to that Cube for a while. I now have three different 1x12" cabs with different kinds of speakers in them. They're useful things to have around.
     
  12. suhr_rodney

    suhr_rodney Supporting Member

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    I've never heard a non-reverb model, but I'm told that when the reverb circuit is bypassed there is no tonal impact of it being present. So other than a few bucks for the option, there's no disadvantage. IMHO it makes the amp more versatile. Even though I don't use reverb often, the softening effect engaging it has on the tone (even when the knob is on 0) is interesting. But to each his own... one of the great things about this forum.

    No prob on the cube cab. I'll snag another one. What cab/speaker combinations do you have? Do you use them with a Shiva now? Comments on the tone? (Perhaps better suited for another thread so as not to hijack this one.)
     
  13. suhr_rodney

    suhr_rodney Supporting Member

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    I spoke with Bogner and was told the two Shiva versions sound VERY, VERY similar. (With the bright switches off and the boost set comparable to the prior version.)

    Other than the new features, the most significant change is the pots on the gain channel. The new ones have a different taper, so you've got to turn the knob 'up higher' to get the same sound through the middle sweep of the pot. No change at the extremes, of course.

    They encouraged me to check both out side by side to decide for myself... but I've got a better chance of winning the lottery than finding two versions of the Shiva sitting side-by-side. :D
     
  14. cameron

    cameron Member

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    You could probably arrange this by booking a room at Ultra Sound, and telling them that you'd like a new Shiva and an older one to compare. They'd make it happen, if they've received any new ones, that is. And you could crank 'em up as loud as you like. Of course, you'd be paying by the hour for the room . . .

    Ultra Sound is kind of like a motel where you can schedule assignations with high-class amp-courtesans.
     
  15. Ted Witcher

    Ted Witcher Member

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    I had a Shiva once (and might again) and there is a definite change when switching the reverb on and off. The tone when the verb is in (but turned down to 0) is not the same as when it is switched out.

    But wait a minute, the new ones are only available in green?
     
  16. sws1

    sws1 Member

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    For one, when the reverb is turned on, even if the knob is on 0, the volume drops a bit. As a result, the little electrons are not flowing in the same rate in the same spots. No wonder there is a tone difference.

    Other than the volume drop, the tonal difference is extremely minor. For recording, I'd probably turn reverb off and add later. For live playing, I don't think anyone can really hear the difference.
     
  17. suhr_rodney

    suhr_rodney Supporting Member

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    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. IMHO the attack is very different. But, I welcome differing opinions... part of what makes this forum interesting.
     
  18. twangbanger

    twangbanger Member

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    I use the reverb switch to tone down rythm parts in a live setting. It seems to soften the attack and lower the output a tad. but works good if in fact your looking for that vibe or just to drop down a little vol if the other player is taking a lead etc....
     
  19. sws1

    sws1 Member

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    I can't say I noticed any attack differences. But given that the sound through the speaker drops when the reverb kicks in, it doesn't kick you the same since less air is being pushed.

    Maybe you're right, and there is some differences, even after you normalize the volume. But again, I can't imagine anyone other than the guitar player himself hearing it. I'd say the change is less than a tube swap would be. IMO

    Maybe I have one of those perfect "early" Shivas.:dude
     
  20. Alex_S

    Alex_S Member

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    Hi,

    for the initial question, I own a new Shiva 1x12 EL34 combo (and love it). As I have never heard an old one I can't compare both soundwise but if you have any other questions regarding the new Shiva I might be able to help...

    Ciao Alex
     

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