Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by Luca1979, May 15, 2019.
This is why I mostly ignore opinions on tone unless I hear clips of their personal results.
Page after page with this nonsense about taking 6 months to dial it in.
It was dialed in over a period of 6 months. Even for a non-english native that difference is quite easy to understand.
They probably started out by Knofler saying OK that his tech could buy one and they would do some tests to see if he liked it. After some time he probably said OK to move forward and that's when the real work began.
The tech had probably other work to do as well over this period of time (studio/live ?).
No product takes 6 months 8 hours a day to dial in. Move on ...
Indeed, these points and explanations were offered at the very start of this entire thread...and recapitulated in one form or another (like your excellent post above) many many times throughout the evolution of this thread.
From my post #24:
Once you start adding much more effects beyond some simple reverb, your amp tone—especially the feel and response of it, but also the harmonic content of it—becomes less important. Because with effects you disguise it anyway.
This to me is at the heart of the divide between digital and tube.
When I played a digital rig I did not like it until I a.) amplified it with an all tube PA and b). Used some kind of effects, at least a healthy dose of reverb. I never felt satisfied with it dry.
Mark has always been one to use effects and to use the studio to *do something* to his sound. So he seems to me a good candidate for the digital world all along. I doubt this is his first experience with it.
Other side of the coin, owning a killer sounding tube head, I had the opposite problem. Sounds great with effects, don’t get me wrong, but I would lose some feel and magic using effects and at least 90% of the time would turn off all effects, including verb, to get back to what I love best and what inspires me most. Natural reverb is enough often times anyway.
It comes down to preference. Mark had tube amps no doubt but he has never been a dry player. I think digital is good enough for those in that camp. I don’t think digital is *there* yet for those in the dry camp. For me they still have a long way to go to be where my head is dry and the latency is something I’m also very sensitive to.
I hope they figure it out in time. Tubes won’t be produced forever.
All due respect, Sounds like an apologetics hair-splitting argument to me.
An hour a week working at it for 6 months is still too much drama for this guitar player. Sound is an illusive enough medium without having to chase my tail like that. It’s not for everyone. That’s all.
Call me a dinosaur but to me even that scenario is a waste of 26 hours to me. And I can’t help but wonder if it isn’t more a process of taking 6 months to convince themselves they like it and to get used to the latency/lack of feel as much as it is finding settings.
Noting against Mark, but working on “numbers” and SMEs business here I see someone who wants to cut the cost of back line and supporting staff.
It’s not for me, but the pro of the KPA are undeniable.
The 6 month thing is funny because it’s just an excuse for these guys. If you dispel that, they’ll just come up with some other reason. And that’s fine. Let them support this dinosaur technology and allow them to feel superior with their inferior rigs.
Mark plays with his fingers, not a pick. Any fan knows that. So unless you have mastered that, your tone chase is going nowhere by buying a Kemper.
Firstly play whatever you like, okay? I’m not the dweeb calling your rig inferior. That’s childish nonsense to call someone else’s rig inferior. What works for you works for you, the rest be damned.
But the quote posted by Kemper states the tech “devoted much of his time for six months” to dial in the tones for MK. Yet much of this thread is people trying to say it doesn’t say what it says. And I’m making the point that no matter how you try to slice that or argue it away, it’s a lot of time invested. And all I said is FOR ME, it’s too much. Can I have that opinion? Of course I can. I’m a consumer just like anyone here.
It’d probably help to go read the quote again. I’ve read it a few times now and for Kemper to post it they seem to be kind of putting folks on notice that it may take some time to get their product set up to your liking but there are benefits to be had if you spend the time. (Primarily the benefits touted in the quote are it’s user friendly with in-ear monitors and front of house applications, all of which make sense with digital set ups and remain strong selling points, especially in this day with powered PA and monitor ease of use, bluetooth, etc.)
Others will be satisfied with a preset as is, as you say but that’s probably not who they’re focusing their marketing on here. It’s more the the guys like me they want to win over that the post is geared to. Or those guys like steve vai that are more difficult to please and convince. Like perhaps mark was if you read between the lines. (At least the quote suggests there were those on marks team who were skeptical and it took 2 weeks into the tour to convince.)
And to that I say I’m not a fan of tweaking with digital devices. I have enough digital in my life and thoroughly enjoy my analog head and find it refreshing. There’s nothing wrong with that either.
I own three H9s so I still do my share of digital but I’m glad my head doesn’t do editing beyond analog knobs and switches. (And thank god for wet/dry rigs or the first H9 would have been my last!)
I’m allowed to have that opinion, too you know. Just like you’re allowed to have the opinion that it’s plug and play. It’s not plug and play for everyone. The quote Kemper posted is a clear objective example of that. Not everyone is going to find the stock presets sounding good for any number of reasons.
Here’s my issue with it all that draws me into commenting: as biased as us tube guys can be...well that’s how the digital camp gets about their gear too. Just as insulting, hardheaded and defensive about it and if we don’t see it we’re just stupid or we never played it, we haven’t tried the latest update, or we have to play too loud to sound good (as if there aren’t superb master volumes in existence today) or we’re just dinosaurs. I’m sick of that as anyone is of the tube arguments. I swear it’s worse than most tube guys get. So defensive and dogmatic about it. (And who knows how many have actually ever played through a good tube amp or one with a good master volume.)
Most of us are just saying we’re open to the tech if it really delivers. Hell I would not have anything digital if I wasn’t. But I’m not going to pretend it, the new tech has to fully earn my business and I refuse to settle for less than what I already have when it comes to tone and feel. It’s part of the instrument and inspiration for me so it’s damn critical. That parts not the dinosaur in me it’s the musician talking. Tone is paramount to a musician. Everyone here should respect that.
This whole thread can be summed up with this quote imo.
Prepping for a tour takes months. Not months of solid uninterrupted tone tweaking but months of getting the tone right, setting up set lists, triggers coordinated with lighting and other theatrical effects, fail-over backup solutions, and finally full integration and coordination with the rest of the band and FOH. A major touring act has to have all of this stuff go in, do its thing, and come out extremely fast. Putting ANY new piece of central gear into a show that has been done a certain way for a long time is a project. We have artists who decided they wanted to move to HX from other modeling solutions and their techs need lots of time and even some help from us. Typically if they are cutting in at festival season they are starting to prep in feb. This is not your average guy playing shows at pubs around town. It’s a multi million dollar investment that has to be perfect.
We have a new angle.
No just a fact of Marks long existing style.
You’d never know the difference if you played with your eyes too.
A lot of where digital falls down for me is in feel/ response. The audience won’t know but my fingers will.
No issues running your analog tube signal through a digital FX unit that doesn't have an analog true bypass???
WTF????? He's one of the most straight guitarrist: AMP, comp, maybe an overdrive or booster(Like the Hot Cake or the RC booster), Delay and maybe a bit of Reverb. Look at his last tour rack: a pair of compressors and two TC2290. Even rigs of "purists of tone" like Rich Robinson are more complicated.
Big issues with it. Hence the wet/dry rig.