Should Strymon go all-in with modeling?

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If I'm being honest here, I think we have better than all that in the current gen of at least two of the top tier modelers. And they're both continuing to innovate. The Timeline, Big Sky, and Mobius algorithms have been static since release. Are they good? Sure. Are they maybe a little dated? Maybe. Would they compete in an all-in-one unit with amp modeling? Doubtful. Certainly not at a $2K price point.
 

IHeartEL34s

Silver Supporting Member
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On the effects front: Can't count how many posts I see, where people are trying to get their modeler's effects to mimic the Strymons. It's never the other way around. I'd pick Strymon's effects over the equivalent, in my Axe III. Far easier to dial in the big ambient stuff, and they sound better.

On the modeling front: Many people love the Iridium, and for it being their first stab at amp modeling, they crushed it. It's much more than just a budget modeler. They're on the right path, with plenty of room to innovate here.

So factor in their arguably still best in class effects, fantastic amp modeling, and the Strymon brand/aesthetic? No brainer.
 
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Tonekat

Gold Supporting Member
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I'd like a modeler with superb, tweakable presets of lots of great amps, but with the option to provide my own effects, rack units, etc..
 
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LaXu

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10,773
No, because they make more money selling individual pedals. I think one of their strengths is having dedicated controls for each device, even if it means putting them on a board is not so compact.

Of course I would love a Strymon modeler and would probably buy it. I have a Volante, Nightsky, Flint and Riverside on my board and they are all great.
 

Foxmeister

Gold Supporting Member
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1,359
No, because they make more money selling individual pedals.
I concur.

At $2K, a Strymon modeller would be firmly in AxeFX3 territory, and such a modeller is going to need way more amps and effects to compete in this space.

At say $1K, it might be an easier sell, but would possibly end up cannabilizing sales of their individual pedals.

I have an Iridium, but I never use it because I don't think it sounds better than any of my fully-featured modellers, and when it comes to pedals like the Timeline and the Bigsky, I think Fractal are already there, and Helix is close enough for my one particular needs.
 

LaXu

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10,773
At $2K, a Strymon modeller would be firmly in AxeFX3 territory, and such a modeller is going to need way more amps and effects to compete in this space.

At say $1K, it might be an easier sell, but would possibly end up cannabilizing sales of their individual pedals.

I have an Iridium, but I never use it because I don't think it sounds better than any of my fully-featured modellers, and when it comes to pedals like the Timeline and the Bigsky, I think Fractal are already there, and Helix is close enough for my one particular needs.
I think there's room for modelers that don't try to offer everything but the kitchen sink. Something with Strymon's already large range of fx algorithms in an easy to use package would sell, especially when framed against the cost of multiple Strymon pedals. I already have something like 1300 euros in just four and that's buying half of them used. An extra 700 euros to get everything in a more compact thing? Sold!

A "meat and potatoes" unit like a Big Sky or Timeline is easy for other modelers to do in their own way. I find my Fractal FM3 has a harder time doing what my Volante and Nightsky can do. It can do those sounds, but it requires using different blocks (eg Plex Delay for some Nightsky sounds, Multitap delay for Volante on top of the basic reverb and delay blocks) and overall setting them up for those sounds is far more complicated and doing both in a single preset might be challenging while also being way more complicated to configure. I think Strymon did a good job with the way the Volante and Nightsky work, they are just the right amount of complex and versatile without becoming cumbersome to configure.

As for the Iridium, I feel it got fairly close to what my FM3 can put out when run with the same cab sims. The FM3 had a more "complex" sound but not to the point that I would be disappointed using the Iridium by any means. If the Iridium has failings, its the lack of an fx loop and its headphone amp quality, not the way it sounds or feels.
 

Watt McCo

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12,948
The Strymon stuff sounds fantastic, but what makes it sooo good is that they are individual pedals focused on a specific area of effects with a really, really well thought out UI/knob tapers, etc. The only thing close to annoying about using them is occasionally having to remember secondary functions exist and how to access them.

I use a Volante with my Axe FX III not so much because I can't make the III sound like the Volante, but because the Volante is so much easier, not to mention fun, to use to get to sounds I like.

I think even the diehard Strymon fans would find an integrated multi unit frustrating to use and to have lost a lot of the magic of the pedals.
 

LaXu

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10,773
The Strymon stuff sounds fantastic, but what makes it sooo good is that they are individual pedals focused on a specific area of effects with a really, really well thought out UI/knob tapers, etc. The only thing close to annoying about using them is occasionally having to remember secondary functions exist and how to access them.

I use a Volante with my Axe FX III not so much because I can't make the III sound like the Volante, but because the Volante is so much easier, not to mention fun, to use to get to sounds I like.

I think even the diehard Strymon fans would find an integrated multi unit frustrating to use and to have lost a lot of the magic of the pedals.
I think it heavily depends on how it is implemented. If anyone can do it thoughtfully, it's Strymon.

On current modelers I feel there is a huge emphasis on the footswitching and very low effort put into the physical knob control. Axe-Fx and Helix have 5-6 knobs under the screen, they don't have that great feel to them (compared to analog pots), often require a lot of turning to get from one point to another.

There's also no well working way to expand on the knob controls using e.g your favorite MIDI knob controller but you can add footswitching a million ways.

The Quad Cortex by comparison felt a lot more like using a pedalboard so that touchscreen for selecting stuff, more knobs for physical control definitely works. I could see something similar working for Strymon but maybe using separate knobs rather than combined footswitches/knobs.
 
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sliberty

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One of the things i love most about my Iridium is its ease of use. If they incorporated it into a full blown modeling platform, i suspect that would be lost, and it would have a UI similar to Helix / AXE / etc. don’t get me wrong, i’m not afraid of such things - i have and love an HX Stomp. But i really appreciate the simplicity and familiarity of the Iridium.
 

Tito83

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3,164
The Strymon stuff sounds fantastic, but what makes it sooo good is that they are individual pedals focused on a specific area of effects with a really, really well thought out UI/knob tapers, etc. The only thing close to annoying about using them is occasionally having to remember secondary functions exist and how to access them.

I use a Volante with my Axe FX III not so much because I can't make the III sound like the Volante, but because the Volante is so much easier, not to mention fun, to use to get to sounds I like.

I think even the diehard Strymon fans would find an integrated multi unit frustrating to use and to have lost a lot of the magic of the pedals.

So the issue is UI, not really the multieffects thing. I don't see why they couldn't make something like what IK did with their pedals and Amplitube. Put everything inside the same unit, make the pedals look like the real ones through the UI.

The UI on the Fractal stuff is cold. Including the editor. Easier to use, yes, still cold. I get the idea, but it looks very unappeling to say the least. I think the greatest improvement to the Axe-fx ecosystem right now would to put more friendly graphics.

It makes things more fun, we always forget that music should be fun. That includes the gear.
 

Gasp100

Silver Supporting Member
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I prefer Strymon or H9 FX to my FM3, but having the quality very, very close in a relatively small, sturdy enclosure that has scenes / channels and multi-function footswitching is just too much in favor of the Fractal. And this based on using ONE amp + IR for everything (with virtual drive pedals.
I have zero doubt they could do it very well and would buy it immediately even if closer to $2500+.
 

LaXu

Member
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10,773
I prefer Strymon or H9 FX to my FM3, but having the quality very, very close in a relatively small, sturdy enclosure that has scenes / channels and multi-function footswitching is just too much in favor of the Fractal. And this based on using ONE amp + IR for everything (with virtual drive pedals.
I have zero doubt they could do it very well and would buy it immediately even if closer to $2500+.
Agreed. Its the convenient setup for switching that makes a big difference. While I have the Strymon Conduit to manage my Strymons, my MIDI controller setups are far from perfect and nowhere near as convenient as just using scenes on something like Fractal.

But on the flipside, I have tried using my Nightsky to replicate Fractal's "North Church" and "South Church" reverb models which are apparently "inspired by" the super pricy Bricasti M7 rack reverb. They are not verbs you would use at a gig but they are super fun at home. I have gotten good results (though not exact) from the Nightsky for that.
 

Antipodes

Member
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274
The Iridium definitely looks like a toe in the water as far as amp modellers go so I imagine there would be/have been some kind of debate inside Strymon as to whether to pull the trigger on a big modeller with full FX.

Their marketing is all about quality/best in class. They would not want to take a step down and be an also ran in the big box modeller class. The lower end is going to dominated by Asia in any case. I think they would want a pretty advanced feature set all ready to go and would not want to run it like the NDSP did with the QC with a delayed and incomplete product pushed out the door before it was ready for prime time.

If they went this way I would expect fewer new pedals and I don't think they have done a lot besides the Volante, Night Sky and Iridium in the last couple of years so that could indicate that they have thrown resources at something more comprehensive.

The other way they could go is the route Eventide went with the H9 Max - a stomp box that does everything and the editor is external.
 

Gasp100

Silver Supporting Member
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25,998
I will add, as I have gotten even deeper into tweaking my FM3 with MIDI integration (controlling and being controlled), external products (switches, MIDI control, H9 MAX, Timmy, etc), standin, control switches, freeze function, etc. I have to say it is an extremely well thought out product from “soup to nuts” as they say. Not even mentioning deeper amp, cab and FX controls the whole package for $1K is pretty incredible!
 

JiveTurkey

Trumpets and Tants
Silver Supporting Member
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25,117
I'm going to have to try a Strymon something or other at some point.
 

C-4

Member
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15,167
All-in-one unit combining the Mobius, Timeline, Big Sky, and Iridium (with maybe some additional amp models). Sell for say, ~$2k.

What do you think? I think they could definitely compete
I would like to see this! :)
I would want the unit to be a comprehensive unit able to compete with Fractal, Neural QC, and Helix.
 




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