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Shouldn’t we always low/hi cut

dirty145

Member
Messages
427
Looking at the typical frequency ranges of most guitar speakers, they typically seem to range from 70hz - 5000hz. When using a modeler, why wouldn’t we always use cuts to stick within these ranges? Is it because the IR already takes this into account?
 

timbuck2

Senior Member
Messages
3,036
Looking at the typical frequency ranges of most guitar speakers, they typically seem to range from 70hz - 5000hz. When using a modeler, why wouldn’t we always use cuts to stick within these ranges? Is it because the IR already takes this into account?
try headrush mx5/mg30...seems these dont require this as much as helix seems to. some modelers may be more analog feeling/sounding?
 

SteveO

Member
Messages
16,888
IRs don't add anything that isn't in the sound of the mic'd cabinet to begin with, but hi cuts will remove most of the high end content that you don't hear when you're off axis from the speaker (which is how most people hear their amps). Lo cut helps by removing the very low frequencies that aren't really necessary and tend to eat up headroom, and also to help get the guitar out of the way of the bass guitar (helpful for recording or live playing, not really a big deal when playing alone).
 

Alex Kenivel

Member
Messages
2,230
why wouldn’t we
It depends on who we are. If we are someone who knows nothing about EQ other than tonestack knobs, we probably wouldn't take it into account at all. Helix stuff is set at at 80hz - 8khz default, so in that case they're on whether you know it or not.

I Can't speak for everyone but I bake my cuts into my IRs so I don't bother with them half the time (though sometimes the user defaults are set up anyway ha)
 

John Mark Painter

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
12,161
It's complicated....

There are very high and low frequencies in the RECORDINGS of guitar speakers.
Generally not a ton...but they are usually there.
Clearing out extreme frequencies is generally a safe move but I never cut highs (using IR) and I do cut lows very carefully to taste.
I generally end up cutting lows in the MIX stage while listening in context though.
 

jaxjaxon

Member
Messages
813
For me it will not matter as much, if I use a piano amp I will use a broad range speaker. Match what the amp will put out frequency wise. I have used a stereo Bass speaker with a guitar speaker and a Horn tweeter before off of a Marshall Head made for a great grunge sound,or Hendrix.
 

Pedro58

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,184
I have the global eq on my PodGo set as a high/low cut, but it's not extreme. Then, when I'm in a particular patch, I might use the IR block to cut a little more.
 

dirty145

Member
Messages
427
I use a fractal FM3 and the issue I run into is deciding which speaker to dial tones on. If I dial in on my Xitone active wedge, the tone through my QSC K10.2 seems to be too bassy/muddy. When I correct for that on the QSC, the resulting tone is fairly thin on my Xitone wedge for monitoring.
 

fancysalmon

Member
Messages
293
Depends what you're going for.

First of all, a lot of IRs are pre-EQd. Some have a mild EQ applied, some are straight up marketed as being usable in the mix as is.

Second, frequency ranges of speakers are very likely measured in anechoic chambers (or they try to get rid of the reflections as much as possible), cab is not in the equation here, and there's a certain tolerance to the measurement, as well as to the specs (ever looked at the headphone frequency range specs? they're completely absurd, but that's how their specific market works). Furthermore, the mic itself has a frequency range that it can capture.

Finally, as I've mentioned, it depends on what you're going for. If you're just practicing then you probably don't want a thin sound, right? You want the guitar so sound as full and nice as possible. Which is usually a bad choice for a mix because there's bass guitar to consider, drums, other guitar tracks, vocals, maybe synths, and so on.

The bottom line - you should pretty much never always do something. Use hi/low cuts because you need to use them and you understand why you're using them, not because you've seen someone mention that you should always use them or whatever.
 

SteveO

Member
Messages
16,888
I use a fractal FM3 and the issue I run into is deciding which speaker to dial tones on. If I dial in on my Xitone active wedge, the tone through my QSC K10.2 seems to be too bassy/muddy. When I correct for that on the QSC, the resulting tone is fairly thin on my Xitone wedge for monitoring.
I run different presets that are tweaked specifically for the different monitoring that I use (K10s, studio monitors, headphones). This is much easier to deal with than trying to balance one preset to work across different monitors.
 

dirty145

Member
Messages
427
I run different presets that are tweaked specifically for the different monitoring that I use (K10s, studio monitors, headphones). This is much easier to deal with than trying to balance one preset to work across different monitors.
I hear you, but wouldn’t you want your preset tweaked to sound best through FOH and then maybe use output 2 with a global eq to tweak for your monitor. I’m not sure why people dial their tones for their monitor and then sound like crap through FOH. I get the sound engineer can tweak your tone to fit the mix, but sometimes we have to run our own sound as well.
 

SteveO

Member
Messages
16,888
I hear you, but wouldn’t you want your preset tweaked to sound best through FOH and then maybe use output 2 with a global eq to tweak for your monitor. I’m not sure why people dial their tones for their monitor and then sound like crap through FOH. I get the sound engineer can tweak your tone to fit the mix, but sometimes we have to run our own sound as well.
I quit playing out a long time ago, so that's not an issue for me right now.
 

MIJLOVER

Member
Messages
2,507
I never use high cut with Helix. Sometimes, but very infrequently, I might apply a mild low cut.

Usually, the IRs I use don't need cuts. The tone stack is enough 95 % of the time.
 

dirty145

Member
Messages
427
I never use high cut with Helix. Sometimes, but very infrequently, I might apply a mild low cut.

Usually, the IRs I use don't need cuts. The tone stack is enough 95 % of the time.
I use York Audio IRs for the most part. They sound great, however I wind up using cuts with both my main guitars. I have an EBMM Sabre which seems to require less cut (80hz and 6500-7000khz), however my 60th Anniversary 1960 Les Paul Custom seems to be more around 100hz and 6000khz. Those custombucker pickups are very bright in my guitar…
 

Fresiki

Member
Messages
347
IRs don't add anything that isn't in the sound of the mic'd cabinet to begin with
Don't they, thought? Couldn't a microphone that allows capture up to 20khz capture a lot of sounds in the room (like air movement or i dunno) that the cabinet isn't outputting? I always thought this was the reason why modellers sound fizzy in the high end. It's not just the cabinet. It's everything the mic is picking up. The cabinet stops at 6k maybe, but the microphone picks up higher frequencies than that. Surely that must somehow be built into the IR unless the IR maker post-processes the IR.
 

LaXu

Member
Messages
9,168
Don't they, thought? Couldn't a microphone that allows capture up to 20khz capture a lot of sounds in the room (like air movement or i dunno) that the cabinet isn't outputting? I always thought this was the reason why modellers sound fizzy in the high end. It's not just the cabinet. It's everything the mic is picking up. The cabinet stops at 6k maybe, but the microphone picks up higher frequencies than that. Surely that must somehow be built into the IR unless the IR maker post-processes the IR.
That would not be any different from capturing the sound with a real mic. The placement of the mic determines a lot of how it's going to sound.

For mixes you often want to keep that high end even if on its own it sounds fizzy. But blend in some bass, drums, maybe keyboards and it allows the guitar to cut through better. If you are playing by yourself you probably want to cut it to avoid those fizzy tones.
 

JC Scott

Member
Messages
112
Looking at the typical frequency ranges of most guitar speakers, they typically seem to range from 70hz - 5000hz. When using a modeler, why wouldn’t we always use cuts to stick within these ranges? Is it because the IR already takes this into account?
The frequency range of many famous commercial guitar recordings is below 70 Hz and well above 5 kHz.
 

ragingplatypi

Member
Messages
506
I use an HX Stomp into several different amps and PAs and headphones. Some amps I plug into require me to make low cuts close to 180 Hz, and I’ve never had to make a high cut. It makes me think there are no hard and fast rules.
 




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