So, After 50 Years I Learned That Santana Used...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by 70' s Tone, Jul 23, 2019.

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  1. Bluesful

    Bluesful Supporting Member

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    Great band. Horrible tone (IMHO of course).
     
  2. Johnny Ninefingers

    Johnny Ninefingers Member

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    You sound like someone who thinks lots about guitar playing, rather than just about guitar players.

    It's not about the skills as much as it's about the notes - the skills count, of course, for without them some notes are unreachable. However the skills are there to serve to the notes.

    Some of us have more skills than notes, alas; I know, I'm one of them. But I'm still trying hard.
     
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  3. jimijimmyjeffy

    jimijimmyjeffy Member

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    Thanks. TGP is a valuable chance to talk music with other musicians. It is fun to get into the musical nitty gritty or get inside the mindset of playing. Great chance to exercise your musical ear socially, like music school or something. Sounds like your head is in the right place as far as putting the music first.

    Still humbling to hear that was a SS amp tho. :)
     
  4. JB Eckl

    JB Eckl Member

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    Dudes. Some of the predictable griping about Santana (and/or Clapton etc) is very childish, whether you like them or not. I had the improbable pleasure of Santana mopping the stage with me on several occasions, and let me tell you it was the shortest education I’ve ever received. I’m filming a whole video series about Santana’s contributions to music, so I guess it’s clear where I stand...
     
  5. Miroslav L

    Miroslav L Member

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    "Icon/iconic" has to be the most over-used descriptive word of the last several years. :rolleyes:
    Just listen to media outlets or look at news stories or to anyone, talk about anything old or anything new that they think is even a teensy-weensy bit "special" on any level.

    I'm curious how people describe things anymore that are truly historic or extremely unique considering that now everything is referred to as an "icon" or it's "iconic". :facepalm
    It's like there's no alternative adjective left in the dictionary.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/iconic-take-it-anymore-tr_b_3720468

    https://www.marketplace.org/2017/06/15/would-everybody-please-stop/

    https://www.theblot.com/please-stop-saying-everything-iconic/
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
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  6. jimijimmyjeffy

    jimijimmyjeffy Member

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    Thank you so much. Makes it worthwhile if a couple people enjoy or can get something from it.
     
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  7. jimijimmyjeffy

    jimijimmyjeffy Member

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    Actually both Santana and Benson play straight major scale over that song, Breezin'.

    Neither used a blues scale.

    Neither shredded, as it was melodic for both in that tune, not lick or pattern based.

    And neither used just major pentatonic.

    Carlos did use some overdrive. Yes it was typically compressed. Not sure when his tone was ice picky tho?

    I played Benson's solo NFN in high school bands as a dumb kid, and couldn't play over typical bebop changes (circle of fifths, II V I, Giant Steps, I Got Rhythm, etc) to save my soul. Basically, it was the most popular jazz tune of the time because anybody could hum it or sing it. Masquerade was very popular too. And Broadway. Come to think of it, he had a lotta hits for a jazz guy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
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  8. JB Eckl

    JB Eckl Member

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    That doesn’t change the facts. In our little world of music, and our even smaller world of guitar, there are a few people who can be fairly described with that admittedly much-abused term. They are ICONS.

    They changed the game. They invented whole styles, genres, approaches to the form. They embodied the ethos of a particular time period. They became symbolic. We can be as prickly as we want about it.

    I don’t have to like Metallica. In fact they’ve never done much for me. But they are the archetypal metal band, and they defined an era. I have to respect that. F’n iconic, for lack of a better word.

    To Latinos, Santana became an emblem of pride, not just because Carlos was from Mexico but because he actually integrated real Latin rhythms and phrasing into the biggest sound of the late 1960s: rock. And to the counter culture, he became a survivor, a storyteller, a keeper of the flame. He also went further out on a limb for unity with the original masters of jazz, blues, world music etc, than literally any other rock performer, period.

    I asked him why women seem to understand his playing more than any other guitar hero. He said, ‘we actually pay attention to them. If their hips stop moving, we change direction. If the melodies aren’t hitting them, we make sure it happens.’

    There’s not a discussion of any seriousness to be had about whether Santana is an extremely relevant contributor to the progress of rock or Latin music in the 20th century. And when it comes to the Woodstock era and the eclectic, spiritually adventurous early 70s, Santana can be described with the same word we should reserve for Sly, Jimi, and the rest. Iconic (AF).

    Whether we like the music or not is a matter of individual taste.
     
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  9. jujube

    jujube Member

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    I love all the great albums he made in the 70s but also some later albums. He was a big influence and led me to listen to other music including Brazilian music.
     
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  10. jimijimmyjeffy

    jimijimmyjeffy Member

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    Better than SATANa!:Devil
     
  11. NatGardner

    NatGardner Member

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    I think most guitarists my age started soloing in pentatonics. I have seen it described as " box, ride technique" and other assorted names, but it is the same pent scale. Once you realize Dorian fits you add that, but then you have to break the nasty habit of your note choice sounding like an ascending or descending major scale. Once that habit is broken via assorted techniques like string skipping, stutter phrasing and for me, listening to older jazz guitarists and stealing their riffs ( like I did with Page, Frehley, Blackmore, Betts, Allman and others ) I felt stuck. I wanted to form an amalgam of all these styles, but I had that Clapton, Santana and Frampton. pentatonic flavor in my soloing. This transformation took 10 years btw. There is nothing wrong with that and it is still what I crank when I am driving. I just wanted to sound different. I wanted that rock and roll with a touch of be bop and jazz on the turnarounds style. Old habits break hard and I had to work hard to surpass that style. That being said I can when I hear another guitarist is still hanging in that pent/dorian Santana Clapton mode.
     
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  12. teemuk

    teemuk Member

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    I think it's not an issue of employed technology (SS or tube) rather than an attempt of trying to capture "ambience" with a microphone. You need a specialized recording setup to capture what your ears are hearing (two signals with amplitude and delay conveying direction and distance of sound sources) vs. what a generic microphone can pick up.
     
  13. cutaway

    cutaway Supporting Member

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    all Santana's hits are cover tunes to boot. he didn't write a single hit.
     
  14. kafka

    kafka Supporting Member

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    Tattoos. Anyone who's face becomes someone else's tattoo is overrated. I don't have a tattoo of Thomas Jefferson, and he wrote the Declaration of Independence.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
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  15. Barquentine

    Barquentine Member

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    I've got one and I hate it. Most over-rated amp ever.
     
  16. jimijimmyjeffy

    jimijimmyjeffy Member

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    Yeah, becoming a fan of fuzz made me appreciate the power of old school transistors. Not sure how that works in SS amps though.
     
  17. rollyfoster

    rollyfoster Silver Supporting Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  18. jacklickson

    jacklickson Member

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    I think Sanata’s tone suck too. Me no like Santa’s tone either. His tone suck imo too.
     
  19. Papanate

    Papanate Gold Supporting Member

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    Are you really saying that all the people that like the Katana 50 are wrong because you hate it? LOL! I view these types of amps - like the Fender Mustang, The Kantana series, the Roland Blues Cube etc...as amps for people who have to cover a wide range of guitar sounds. I saw a Rocker Band outdoors and the guy had a Mustang over a 4 x 12 - and the guitarist sounded great. He fit right in the mix and still projected nicely. A couple of months ago I was at a park festival in my little town - and the guitarists all used the same backline - which was a Kantana 100. 5 Guitarist over 5 hours and
    not one made the amp sound bad. Of course it helps that the 5 guys were superb players and very talented. Still I think that a guitarist who had a specific sound and was playing his own music might not get along with these type of amps. I'm thinking of a Steve Van or Van Halen Type - I can't see the amps doing the job in those cases.
     
  20. Barquentine

    Barquentine Member

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    To me, the popularity of the Katana is proof that the world has gone insane. The clean channel is barely okay - I could probably use this at a gig as long as I had a couple of decent o/d pedals to help it out. The gainier options are total garbage. You say that someone playing their own music might not like this amp - what a peculiar statement. Even stranger is your statement that it wouldn't do the job for Van Halen considering that one of the options is what is claimed to be Eddie's brown sound.
     
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