So, After 50 Years I Learned That Santana Used...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by 70' s Tone, Jul 23, 2019.

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  1. OutterLimits

    OutterLimits Gold Supporting Member

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    Go back in history to that time and tell me who sounds better? Opinions are great to share, but let's hear who you think has great tone.
     
  2. Rockledge

    Rockledge Member

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    This doesn't make sense at all. Whether you record through a solid state board or a tube board, what you stick that microphone in front of always matters. You will get a different sound with a tube board than a solid state board, and you will get a different sound depending on who made the solid state or tube board, but not so significant that it doesn't matter what you start with.
    And with digital it is an entirely different animal, especially when sound compression that is digital is added, because sound compression that is in digital programs and more often than not overused does horrid things to distorted and overdriven guitars. Which has little to do with solid state and everything to do with digital.
    In digital you can manipulate sine waves and all that to alter the timbre of instruments, but you still are working with the signal you started with.



    That wasn't always the situation. When he was in the band Santana, what made him famous was his guitar sound. He had this very smooth high gain sound that wasn't very overdriven or distorted. A sound that now, with all the insane amount of tone altering devices, isn't that hard to achieve, but back then it was as if getting high gain with very little overdrive that sustained for days was some trade secret that only big rock stars knew how to do.
    Carlos Santana got famous because of that guitar sound, when Black Magic Woman first hit the airwaves guitarists were pulling their hair out trying to discover how he got a guitar to sound that way.
     
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  3. BlueRiff

    BlueRiff Member

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    OK OK - I'll FINALLY concede it COULD be a solid state amp … but … solid state watts were different in the 60s than they are today. There was more oxygen in the atmosphere in the 60s compared to now which makes the solid state notes in the air seem more tube-like as the sound waves get processed/compressed by the oxygen molecules as you can hear in this video. Ya dig? This explains the apparently impossible achievement of great tone out his transistor equipped amp. :p
     
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  4. Tom CT

    Tom CT Old Supporting Member Gold Supporting Member

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    This sentence contradicts itself. Santana's tone is hugely distorted (what you refer to as "high gain").
     
  5. 70' s Tone

    70' s Tone Member

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    This is what many folks today fail to understand.
    It was a MUCH DIFFERENT time back then - full of exploration and discovery that's lost on many today.
    Thanks for your comments.
     
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  6. zenitB

    zenitB Supporting Member

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    I am an old guy and was a witness to that era... some folks forget and some don't know that the search for more watts at the time led many folks down the road of SS gear. Stage volume was a big part of getting across (but would change a bunch during the following years) and this photo is a great example.
    Richie Havens is on stage and isn't using them but have a look at the arsenal of Acoustic Control amps there. The guitar amps that they made would be forgotten but their bass amps lived on for a lot longer. [​IMG]
     
  7. teemuk

    teemuk Member

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    I remember how shocked I once was about this revelation. I was also shocked to realize that Iron Maiden also used solid-state Gallien-Krueger amps on albums such as "Somewhere In Time", one of my favourites from them.

    ...But that was when I still was "tube snob" and believed myths such as "professionals use only tube amps" or "all albums are recorded with tube amps only", and so on. Then I got more open minded and realized that an astounding amount of my favourite rock albums were actually recorded with solid-state amps. Santana, Iron Maiden, Clapton, Beatles, Rolling Stones, B.B. King, Jefferson Airplane, Canned Heat, Rory Gallagher, Albert King, ZZ Top, Focus, Hurriganes, Dokken, Pantera, et cetera. Today realizing someone uses or used a solid-state amp is no longer that big deal to me because I realized it's actually very, very common thing. And has actually been since dawn of transistorized guitar amplification. All in all, in history's perspective this "tube snobbery" is a moderately new fad. Folks use and used whatever amp sounded good to them or had the features they sought for. That's it. And good solid-state amps are better than average tube amps.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
  8. eigentone

    eigentone Supporting Member

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    Listening as I work today. This is great! :aok
     
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  9. Telebluze

    Telebluze Gold Supporting Member

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    Man, some of the stuff you read on TGP is literally beyond belief!

    Both of these players are absolutely amazing!!

    There are a TON of really baddass players out there that I don't particularly care for, I don't own any of their music, and you'd never hear me playing any of their stuff at my house, or in my car, or covering any of their tunes in my band...….but I'm not so dense that I can't hear and appreciate that persons skill and ability.

    If a guitar player can develop a voice on his instrument that is recognizable (and in some cases even "instantly" recognizable)…….that's not only nearly impossible to do, it's the epitome of being an original artist that has mastered his (or hers) instrument!!

    Of the (2) players you say are "overrated" (which is comical and sad, all at the same time)...…..one of them I absolutely love, and the other I like pretty well, own a few of his records, I really like a few of his tunes, and I'd go see him in concert again...….he has developed a sound that is "instantly recognizable".......within 3 notes, you know it's Carlos!!

    Of the (2), he happens to be the one I like the least, but holy ****!! The guy is amazing!!

    Aside from developing an instantly recognizable sound/style......he is also mostly responsible for blending blues/rock music with Latin rhythm's.

    Again, basically inventing a genre within a genre...…...those (2) things are things that most all of us can only dream of, and to put that down in any way is only announcing to the world, "I'm shallow and completely clueless."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2019
  10. gkelm

    gkelm Supporting Member

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    Depends on which Santana era...the early referenced here was not the more recent hyper-gained out tone.
     
  11. eigentone

    eigentone Supporting Member

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    I thought it was Keith Moon.
     
  12. GT100

    GT100 Member

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    There’s a big difference between being involved in recording popular songs vs being a great guitarist.
    Santana is a master of having excellent song writers in his band.

    Lloyd
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
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  13. GT100

    GT100 Member

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    Yea, that’s because different song writers are used. Anyone can do that. It’s not like he started to write and play in that style.
    It’s his standard playing put on top of different musicians and their songs.
    Santana and Clapton are “masters” of playing pentatonics over everything.

    Lloyd
     
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  14. Tiny Montgomery

    Tiny Montgomery Supporting Member

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    So, that’s also what you’re hearing, then? Pentatonics over “everything?”
     
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  15. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Member

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    My god, I sprung my back just looking at that beast. I hope your insurance covers this sort of thing!
     
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  16. nowhere

    nowhere Member

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    I recall reading in the interview published way back in the early 90's that he chose this amp because he figured that with the Woodstock festival being in a large field he had better get the most powerful amp he could find. I too was surprised it was a solid state amp and the precursor of GK who I knew almost entirely for bass amplification (the exception being the tiny 250ML that was in the magazine ads back when I started playing guitar). Amazing how much he sounds like he did with tube amps - gear is fascinating (otherwise I wouldn't be on this forum!) but the person playing through is what really makes the sound.

    Also, congrats on the handful of trolls/dumbasses (hard to tell sometimes...) for bringing a hefty amount of irrelevant boneheadedness to what is really a pretty esoteric, niche interest thread! I'm so proud of all of you:)
     
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  17. DreamTheaterRules

    DreamTheaterRules Former Lyricist for Calhoun Tubbs

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    you mean "micro-dotted 8th notes" (Remember the code. Dave's not here).
     
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  18. hunter

    hunter Supporting Member

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    Some folks need to get out more. First, Santana brought something brand new to music. Most of us *never* get there. Second, Mr Santana decided to make a living being Santana. I will never blame him for that. But he was quite capable.

    hunter



     
  19. VintagePlayerStrat

    VintagePlayerStrat Supporting Member

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    He always has cool guitar straps. The tone is in the strap.
     
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  20. hunter

    hunter Supporting Member

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