So annoyed at the price hike on Danocasters

guitarlifestyle

I like guitars.
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Again, what is "ridiculous" about supply and demand? Apparently, the guitars are selling at higher than usual. And Clif's a greedy bastard because he's smart enough to maximize his profit.

I have five Danos. I'm figuring that they have appreciated a couple thousand dollars each (for insurance purposes). I'll have to call my agent.
To be fair, Clif was one of the first to call out people for being greedy and listing their Danocasters for well above what they paid.

Regarding the market for these...the market hasn't dictated that they should be priced at a ridiculous premium. The price hike is purely from speculators. Sure, a few people have bit at those prices, but the rest of the guitars are either steadily going down in price or remaining unsold.

The timeline for Danos was that they were routinely selling for around $3,000-3,200. Then Dan announced his retirement. Immediately after (within minutes), one guy who had been selling his with no one interested for around $3,500 raised his asking price to $20,000 and several other people jumped on the speculation train and listed theirs for ridiculous amounts. There was no market indicators that the guitars were worth that much. Just some speculators who wanted it to be that much.

I suspect in time the market will dictate that the guitars are worth more than the $1850-2450 most people paid for them, but to think the current prices are any indication of long-term value is silly and anyone who pays those prices is making a bad financial decision, IMHO of course.

Furthermore, Dan is still making guitars and has stated that he will continue to make guitars until he runs out of materials. You can no longer get on the list, but there are still Danocasters entering the market.

If you own a Danocaster and sell it for a ridiculous amount, more power to you. I'm actually more curious about the people that would buy at a ridiculous amount. Dan seems like a nice guy and seems to make a fine guitar, but who really thinks Dans guitars, built from wood and materials sourced from third parties, are worth anywhere near what some people are asking?
 
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Again, what is "ridiculous" about supply and demand? Apparently, the guitars are selling at higher than usual. And Clif's a greedy bastard because he's smart enough to maximize his profit.

I have five Danos. I'm figuring that they have appreciated a couple thousand dollars each (for insurance purposes). I'll have to call my agent.

For a lot of people it isn't a big deal, for others it isn't. For me personally I loose trust in a company that I know is trying to over profit on its customers, especially considering the past stories people have talked about on here. It's hard to not assume that they don't use the same mentality across the board.
 

John Hurtt

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18,598
I think the problem is the shop owner hounded someone on reverb not so long ago for charging a high price for a dano then turns around and does the same thing. At the end of the day the market sets the price. If no one shells the cash the price will go down
There seems to be some third hand information claiming this...and no real proof. It might be worthwhile to know something before beating up a guy over it. Also, LA Vintage is a business...if he can get more for the guitars he should. No one would complain if he has to cut prices to move something.
 

John Hurtt

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18,598
For a lot of people it isn't a big deal, for others it isn't. For me personally I loose trust in a company that I know is trying to over profit on its customers, especially considering the past stories people have talked about on here. It's hard to not assume that they don't use the same mentality across the board.
You "loosed trust" on a company over profiting? WTF is "over profiting"?
 
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I really don't...how can a company over profit? Is there a ceiling in business that if a company goes past they are over profiting?
Ill word it differently then. I think that pulling guitars off of your website that were selling for $3000 and then putting them back up a week later at $6000 is a greedy money grubbing thing to do. It is really just that simple for me. It shows very little respect for their customers and reflects poorly on the business for a lot of people including myself. You can argue supply and demand, and I do understand that. I also understand that having integrity and making honest transactions with your customers goes a lot further in the long term. I know some of you disagree and I do see where you are coming from, but I stand by feelings on the matter and I know others who do as well. Im sure this will continue to be a polarizing subject.
 

John Hurtt

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18,598
Ill word it differently then. I think that pulling guitars off of your website that were selling for $3000 and then putting them back up a week later at $6000 is a greedy money grubbing thing to do. It is really just that simple for me. It shows very little respect for their customers and reflects poorly on the business for a lot of people including myself. You can argue supply and demand, and I do understand that. I also understand that having integrity and making honest transactions with your customers goes a lot further in the long term. I know some of you disagree and I do see where you are coming from, but I stand by feelings on the matter and I know others who do as well. Im sure this will continue to be a polarizing subject.
Market demand sets the price. If people buy at $6k the dealer made the right move for his business. What if that same dealer would have to drop prices down to say....$1200 because he couldn't move them. Isn't that also something a dealer risks? Would you then go and give him $3k instead of the $1200 because you shouldn't disrespect the dealer? Supply/demand and capitalism are pretty simple concepts to understand.
 
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Market demand sets the price. If people buy at $6k the dealer made the right move for his business. What if that same dealer would have to drop prices down to say....$1200 because he couldn't move them. Isn't that also something a dealer risks? Would you then go and give him $3k instead of the $1200 because you shouldn't disrespect the dealer? Supply/demand and capitalism are pretty simple concepts to understand.
I understand the concept man, and I still stand by my statement.
 

derekd

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41,430
Why do you hate freedom?

Oh, dont get me wrong. I support it in the case of guitars and luxury goods (not necessities like life supporting drugs for example) but it doesn't mean that I'm not going to speak my opinion on the issue. I support la vintages right to choose how they sell their gear, but I'm also going to call them out for a ridiculous mark up too. As a business they can decide if potentially selling these guitars at such a high cost is worth any damages they may receive on their image as a company. For me personally and for others I have no interest in checking out any of their other products they carry based on the fact that they seem more interested in themselves than their customers. For others it doesn't matter, and that's fine.[/QUOTE]
I agree that it is an unreasonable markup, also. I was just messing with you.

The market will ultimately decide what the best price is for Dan's instruments that no longer will be made after he hangs up his apron.
 

John Hurtt

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18,598
I understand the concept man, and I still stand by my statement.
Ok, so if demand goes up you don't want the dealer (who is taking the financial risk) to benefit fully...but if the demand goes down you want to be able to benefit as much as possible? Am I understanding this properly?
 
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1,648
Ok, so if demand goes up you don't want the dealer (who is taking the financial risk) to benefit fully...but if the demand goes down you want to be able to benefit as much as possible? Am I understanding this properly?

no. you aren't understanding it all. You are making assumptions in order to try and "win" an internet argument. Lets also take into account the fact that being the one and only sole dealer of a product that has been in demand for years is not a very risky situation to be in.
 

guitarlifestyle

I like guitars.
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,684
There seems to be some third hand information claiming this...and no real proof. It might be worthwhile to know something before beating up a guy over it. Also, LA Vintage is a business...if he can get more for the guitars he should. No one would complain if he has to cut prices to move something.
The guy he did it to posted screen shots from the Reverb conversation. If that's not enough proof for you, I don't know what to tell you. It's a bad look for Clif.
 

trojanhov

Member
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570
ya it was a screenshot that didn’t looked messed with. I honestly don’t care enough to argue about this anymore given I even had a good transaction with la vintage. But we both agreed on a price for the pedal I bought and it was a good deal for both of us. So ya.
 

clint

Member
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1,520
Are Danocasters becoming the new Klon? :D

Also I think some of you guys are trying to rationalize what is often a very irrational subject: why something becomes sought after. It's not always the intrinsic value. Look at what happened to the price of those crappy resoglas guitars after Jack White started playing them. Even he admitted later they were sort of crappy once he started playing better instruments. I think there are some A list players who use Danocasters so there's that.
 

John Hurtt

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
18,598
no. you aren't understanding it all. You are making assumptions in order to try and "win" an internet argument. Lets also take into account the fact that being the one and only sole dealer of a product that has been in demand for years is not a very risky situation to be in.
What assumptions am I making? You are saying that the dealer shouldn't profit as much as he can....but if the price goes down it's ok that he takes that loss. If a dealer has thousands of dollars of inventory..any inventory...he takes the financial risk. Again, what am I misunderstanding here about your stance? Rather than just telling me that I am wrong...why don't you point it out?

This really isn't that big of a deal. If you think the price is too high don't buy it...if the market agrees with you the price will go down.
 

svenhoek

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1,504
^^ I agree, and this thinking works with those business minded types. Where it fails, is with the creative types who prefer a balance between the all-out pursuit of maximum profit, versus a reasonable profit and perhaps a higher pursuit of being a strong, supportive member of a community. With something like a car, one expects a dealer to go all out for profit. With something like a hand made guitar, there is a reasonable expectation that a large number of musicians and creative types, might choose a merchant that views them as something other than a means to bolster their profit margin at any cost.

In the end the market will indeed dictate pricing, but I don't believe some other shops out there, were they to be Danocaster dealers, would have acted the same way LAV did. That's all. Technically there is nothing wrong with pursuing maximum profit, but some folks might prefer to support dealers that aren't quite so opportunistic. It's the same way in the bike world, there are those shops that do a lot for the community, and those that focus on maximum sales and profit. Some buyers won't care either way, others will appreciate a little bit of extra support.

That LAV called out someone else for being greedy, then raised their own prices, well, that's just special. It's in keeping with how he treated me when he tried to work me over on a deal. I didn't have a problem with him trying to make as much money as possible, I had a problem with the sleazy, manipulative approach (IMO) he used with me. If other folks have had good dealings with them, awesome, power to you. I won't ever go near them again.
 

svenhoek

Member
Messages
1,504
I think part of why this strikes such a nerve with everyone, is that Dan himself tried hard to keep his prices reasonable. He could have charged way more but he chose not to. So to have his dealer do the exact opposite, well, that illustrates my point. Community member making a reasonable profit vs dealer who goes for top dollar.
 




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