So can I just get a spectral analyzer and cop ANY tone with my modeller?!

speedyone

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,481
I came across this vid on youtube:



I followed the link to his site, and he says he uses a 56 or 57 channel eq/spectral analyzer to help him program/copy all of these famous tones.

I was really surprised he got some of these tones SO close, especially using a Boss GT series, because I tweaked my GT-8 for MONTHS, and never got anything that pleased me.

So here's my question:

Is there some kind of plug-in I can use to play my modeller through my computer, and basically tone-match the songs I want to emulate?

Is it really just as simple as matching eqs, and knowing that there's a little phase/flange/delay etc in a guitar's sound?

I'm intrigued to try this EQ matching myself and see what I can get!

I'd love to cop some Ty Tabor sounds.

Curious to know your guys' thoughts. I have nothing to do with the guy on the video I posted, it just intrigued me!
 

Der JD

Member
Messages
378
Sure, Izotope Ozone has match EQ and works great. You have to start out with an isolated guitar part in order to do it though. Then, you'll have to add in your effects. It's really simple and fast.

The problem is that usually these "matched" tones really aren't all that fun to play. Often, guitar is heavily EQ'd to fit in the mix and end up sounding considerably different than what you'd expect. Often, there's a lot less low end than what you're typically used to. Also, the feel never seems right. Tone matches usually end up feeling lifeless and lack dynamics. Ozone can match the EQ spectrum but can't match how the amp responds to your playing. Still, it can be interesting and useful for cover songs.

I used to think getting "matched" tones would be the coolest thing in the world. Then I did it (with Ozone and Axe II) and realized its negatives.
 

MaxTwang

Senior Member
Messages
3,703
Depends on how close you're underlying model and tone are to the amp tone that you're matching and how you plan to use the matched tone. If you match a recording that's eq'd to fit in a mix then it probably won't be too satisfying on its own, but in a mix it can work well. Works with real amps too but you will get the tone of the mic'd amp and not the 'amp in the room'.
 

SnowfaLL

Member
Messages
918
Sure, Izotope Ozone has match EQ and works great. You have to start out with an isolated guitar part in order to do it though. Then, you'll have to add in your effects. It's really simple and fast.

The problem is that usually these "matched" tones really aren't all that fun to play. Often, guitar is heavily EQ'd to fit in the mix and end up sounding considerably different than what you'd expect. Often, there's a lot less low end than what you're typically used to. Also, the feel never seems right. Tone matches usually end up feeling lifeless and lack dynamics. Ozone can match the EQ spectrum but can't match how the amp responds to your playing. Still, it can be interesting and useful for cover songs.

I used to think getting "matched" tones would be the coolest thing in the world. Then I did it (with Ozone and Axe II) and realized its negatives.
Pretty much my feeling on it too when receiving the AxeFX II and trying to tonematch.
 

db9091

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,325
I've bought some tone matched KPA profiles and they're pretty much useless to me.

Not to disparage the concept at all, it's just not for me.
 

donbarzini

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,150
The problem is that usually these "matched" tones really aren't all that fun to play. Often, guitar is heavily EQ'd to fit in the mix and end up sounding considerably different than what you'd expect. Often, there's a lot less low end than what you're typically used to. Also, the feel never seems right. Tone matches usually end up feeling lifeless and lack dynamics. Ozone can match the EQ spectrum but can't match how the amp responds to your playing. Still, it can be interesting and useful for cover songs.

I used to think getting "matched" tones would be the coolest thing in the world. Then I did it (with Ozone and Axe II) and realized its negatives.
agreed....
 

Elric

Member
Messages
4,949
For the most part, if the model has the feel you want and the base tone is a close enough fit to the original, you can get recorded tones that are distinguishable by only the most talented and critical of listeners. Those sound a bit bright/harsh across the board for me but they ARE impressive for a GT-10, since those units suck. :)

I remember being blown away by a few guys who used to do this with the POD XT back in the day. They were producing some monstrous recorded sounds.
 

Baba

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
7,341
I agree with the others, copying an album recorded tone is very cool, but seldom yields a real world application.

That sounded REALLY good though, I'm impressed.
 

db9091

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,325
I don't know if anyone else does or knows this, but since YouTube is mega slow to load up, I hit "Go Advanced" by the Post Quick Reply below, choose the YouTube icon, ender the youtube number between the blocks [/YouTube], and then hit the "Preview Post" button and watch the YouTube

It is 10 time faster than YouTube, which shows they put blocks on the video streaming.
 

speedyone

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,481
The tones in that video do not sound good to my ears.

Well, I didn't say the tones themselves were amazing, but I was surprised how close some of them came to the recordings the guy was trying to emulate-- especially "Bark at the Moon" and the Van Halen stuff.

Since I'm used to playing a modeller through my FRFR set-up, I also am used to getting the "recorded amp tone" and not the "amp in the room live" sound.

Emulating a recorded tone may well sound crummy in isolation, but different people's recorded tones DO have a unique quality to them (Gilmour, Ty Tabor as examples.) If you can get close to these sounds, then you can tweak them to where they are more fitting for your application.

Generally, I want to sound like ME and not someone else. But, there are times I'd like to have a particular sound, especially when playing other peoples' music (Periphery, Eric Johnson, Shawn Lane, Gilmour, etc).

Thanks all for your input!

I will check out Ozone and some of the other programs you guys have mentioned for fun.

:)
 

Baba

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
7,341
The tones in that video do not sound good to my ears.
When you say "not good", do you mean they don't sound that close to what they are copying, or they do, but you just don't enjoy those types of tones?

I know a good many of those tones like the back of my hand, and they are extremely close.
 

MaxTwang

Senior Member
Messages
3,703
A problem some have with match EQ and 'feel' is sometimes attributable to gain settings. With modelers, and amps, there is a tendency to use too much gain which IMO makes it easier to play but kills dynamics and feel. Tone matches can exacerbate this because the tone sounds right but the feel is wrong.

When you get the match EQ software, or when using the Axe's Tone match, experiment with matches at different distortion levels when matching a recording. When matching a real amp set your model's gain, now roll back you guitar volume until the real amps cleans up - if your model isn't cleaning up like the amp you need to adjust the gain and maybe tone until your model responds like the amp - then do the match.
 
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Akeron

Member
Messages
290
When you say "not good", do you mean they don't sound that close to what they are copying, or they do, but you just don't enjoy those types of tones?

I know a good many of those tones like the back of my hand, and they are extremely close.
I must say that, with the exception of maybe the Pour some sugar on me tone and maybe another two, the majority of those sounds are a little too "robotic" and unpleasant in the high end and the general distortion is a little too fake. That reminded me some demo from 20 years ago. With all due respect, if you think those sounds are really that close to the original you may want to recheck the back of your hand :eek: Now if you also want to take into consideration the person that originated those sounds and his spamming everywhere...
 

Racehorse

Member
Messages
804
When you say "not good", do you mean they don't sound that close to what they are copying, or they do, but you just don't enjoy those types of tones?

I know a good many of those tones like the back of my hand, and they are extremely close.
Akeron's answer below pretty much sums it up. Very shrill, thin, fatiguing, unpleasant mid/high frequencies. I think they sounded "correct" relating to matching EQ, but it's like putting lipstick on a pig.

The worst is at 0:33, is that Pretty Woman or R2D2 at the drive-thru window?

I must say that, with the exception of maybe the Pour some sugar on me tone and maybe another two, the majority of those sounds are a little too "robotic" and unpleasant in the high end and the general distortion is a little too fake. That reminded me some demo from 20 years ago. With all due respect, if you think those sounds are really that close to the original you may want to recheck the back of your hand :eek: Now if you also want to take into consideration the person that originated those sounds and his spamming everywhere...
 

barhrecords

Member
Messages
1,523
The point is that there is a difference between boosting a certain frequency-band or adding content in a certain frequency-band.

For example, if you put an exciter onto a certain signal, the spectrum analysis will show a certain increase somewhere in the highs, and therefore, to "match" the EQ, a plug like ozone or the axe's tonematching or James Limborg manually boosts some highs on the post EQ. And therefore, of course, it will not sound the same but rather unpleasant and unnatural.

The GT-10, by nature, lacks a good bit of usable high-end content. Now if you want to do EQ-matching games and copy a tone that has quite a bit going on in the top end, what you actually do is boosting where there is nothing to boost but some ugly digital artifacts.
Bingo!

To get the best results, you really need to get the gain similar by ear before matching the eq. (and efx too)

IR EQ matching cannot replicate non-linear parts of the tone like distortion and compression.
 

mattball826

Senior Member
Messages
20,810
works best with isolated guitar tracks. never had much luck otherwise. its kind of ok, but would do better to just tweak it out.
 




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