So I put an RS "Vintage" kit in my Les Paul -

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by eric-d, Jun 28, 2008.

  1. eric-d

    eric-d Member

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    and it does sound better when everything is on 10. They really made this guitar sound pretty sweet with the Antiquities. BUT - I'm not getting this smooth, high-end retaining tone that others are talking about. I wired it exactly like the diagram provided too. The neck and the bridge volume pots do not retain the high-end as I expected, in the fact that both start to get mid-heavy after the guitar is rolled down to 8. The bridge volume has a some-what dramatic drop off around 8 1/2 that is especially noticeable with a gain pedal. It reminds my of a 250K pot on a Fender. 7 1/2 - 10 is the only usable area of the pot and the rest is just muddy and lifeless. The tone knobs are the complete opposite - they are like a stock Gibson 300K or whatever they use - the change in tone is VERY subtle between 4-10. It's only really tonal change is between 1-4. Another thing I noticed is the 50's wiring style isn't as usable in the middle position. When the wiring was stock - I could have the toggle in the middle, roll the neck volume down a bit and the treble tone knob and get a really great old school blues sound. Now - it's less pronounced and not as "juicy" sounding, IMHO. I really don't know what to do about this set up. Like I said - when everything is on 10 - it opened up the tone and made the Lester really sing, but the roll-offs have left a lot to be desired. I'm trying to understand how mine isn't that great - function-wise - and everyone else who has installed this kit doesn't describe how mine is acting! Any help would be greatly appreciated - E


    Here's a pic of the guts I installed -


    [​IMG]
     
  2. drift_boat

    drift_boat Member

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  3. Caretaker

    Caretaker Silver Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Personally, I have bought several guitars with RS stuff already in it and it`s the foirst thing I change. I use CTS 500K(or better, I measure them) and spraugue orannge drop caps if I don`t have any vintage. That is my recipe for success and I never have any complaints so you might want to try that. The pots and caps wil cost you unser $20 just about anywhere that sells Allparts or direct from them. I did notice the caps you have are 600v, they shoulsd be 400V. Just my .02.
     
  4. Trebor Renkluaf

    Trebor Renkluaf I was hit by a parked car, what's your excuse? Gold Supporting Member

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    I had a similar experience as yours - with both my Les Paul and G&L ASAT Classic. On the Les Paul, the volume pots roll off way to quick - by 8 or so that volume is way, way down. On the ASAT the tone gets noticeably thinner as I roll the volume down. Overall, I really wasn't impressed.
     
  5. jaycee

    jaycee Member

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    I dropped a RS kit in my SC and the difference is night and day. Very smooth, tapered roll off. So much better, for me.
     
  6. gkoelling

    gkoelling Member

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    I put the kit in my LP.......zero difference. Oh, well.....
     
  7. Bo Faulkner

    Bo Faulkner Member

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    The vintage kit would be different than the whole pot/cap kit right?
     
  8. yngwie308

    yngwie308 Member

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    DR.Vintage set for me, got RS aged Klusons though...:)
    yngwie308
     
  9. esoteric pete

    esoteric pete Member

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    i have the aged RS kit with the luxe caps and it was night and day for me too, and not because i "wanted it to"...

    basically, for me, when the volume is on 5, its the same exact tone as when its on 10, its just quieter, obviously.

    also, when i roll off the tone for the bridge PU, it doesnt get and darker really, just takes the edge off the top, so its not too in-your-face sounding, and it doesnt get murky sounding until you get down to around 3ish...

    i wouldnt have bought this kit for 4 of my guitars if it didnt add something or enhance the performance of the instrument...

    i dont buy stuff just to look cool...especially when you dont even see this stuff due to being covered by the backplate...

    YMMV, of course!
     
  10. jamison162

    jamison162 Supporting Member

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    There's a lot more to it than just "installing a kit". You gotta know what you've got in there, what you're putting in and what improvements you are trying to accomplish. If you don't understand why things changed or what each component does and how it affects tone then you're wasting your time and going in circles.

    I've always had great success with rewiring LP's and I've been chomping at the bits to get to my own Heritage H-150, just haven't had the time.
     
  11. BobbyRay

    BobbyRay Supporting Member

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    Sounds exactly like what I've found in my LP. I get the dropoff in highs as I roll down the volume as well. Also I have a nice taper to the volume pot on the neck, but my bridge pot goes down dramatically from about 10-7. Not an even transition at all for me.

    I think it's better than what I had in there, but not the shiznitt that most people say it is.

    LP Standard with WCR Fillmores in case anyone was wondering.
     
  12. BobbyRay

    BobbyRay Supporting Member

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    Well going off of his post, and seeing the components and his list of complaints...What do you recomend?
     
  13. RSRelic

    RSRelic Member

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    Those are not RS caps (or did I miss where you said you changed them). Next you can't make a passive volume roll off signal evenly it has to start rolling off highs first (unless you use a high pass circuit) all the 50s wiring does is takes the load of the tone control off the volume to help cut down on how dark the tone does. What every one is missing here is this is a Vintage kit, so it does what Vintage guitars did nothing better or worse. If you want better try our Modern kit. There is no kit that's for everyone, but if you want a guitar to act like a burst did that kit does it, but it's performance is only as good as the install. Cold solder and sloppy solder joints and overheating parts kills how the kits work, so install quality is everything in terms of tone.
     
  14. The Pup

    The Pup Supporting Member

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  15. Calloway

    Calloway Supporting Member

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    I put a modern kit in my les paul, and I honestly could tell a difference. this was after putting one in a Lowel made SG, and that totally changed the tone of the guitar, in an amazing way. I typically don't buy into a lot of the boutique mods that are out there, but this really was more user friendly for me.
     
  16. jamison162

    jamison162 Supporting Member

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    That's a loaded question. I have no idea what pickups he's using and what his stock components were (500, 300 a mix, etc.). Why he wanted to change, etc? Did he use the RS "Super Pots" and did he put them in the right positions, etc. I use the highest pot value for the neck volume, 2nd highest for the bridge volume and am a huge fan of the .022/.015 caps values vs. .022 all around (no matter what caps are being used). I'm also a huge fan of the 50's wiring but sometimes will do 50's neck, modern on the bridge if the bridge is too thin sounding.

    As far as the RS Vintage vs. Modern kits, the only difference I see are the caps that come with them. Other than that, looks, like all the components are the same. The original poster didn't even use the caps provided, I'm not sure what those are and the wiring looks a little messy. I can't make heads or tails of it.

    Roy, are there different wiring schemes (50's vs. std/modern) recommended for each kit (vintage vs. modern) or is that up to the customer?
     
  17. RSRelic

    RSRelic Member

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    Yes the Vintage, and Aged kit come wired 50s style (but the pot types and vales are different in those two kits) and the Modern kit comes with a custom wiring that keeps the volumes and tones very independent, so they don't mess with each other like the 50s does (not that that's good or bad) and the values of the pots are selected differently for more detail and defined tone.
     
  18. eric-d

    eric-d Member

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    Took out stock 2002 Std parts (whatever they were at that time) put in Rs "Vintage" kit and some caps (The same ones used in the Dr. Vintage kit) from a TGP member. The neck is a .015 600V and the bridge is a .022 600V all wired to 50's specs. I didn't think my wiring was messy... BTW - Jamison - obviously you didn't read the first post. I stated my pickups and I have to admit - I'm no Landgraff, Thorn, or Fuchs - but I know how to solder.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2008
  19. eric-d

    eric-d Member

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    To add to my previous post. I tried some Sprague orange drops (.015 and .022 - both @ 400V) and the Jensens (that were supplied with kit) with the same results. Again - I repeat - with the volumes and tones on 10 - it's fantastic..... It's everywhere else on the knobs that are "ehhh" .... I even re-wired it to a "modern" styling and it sounded like it used to with a little more clarity.
     
  20. Seegs

    Seegs Member

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    I heard the Rs kit in my buds R7...he came back with the Dr. Vintage early spec kit wired 50's style in the same guitar and we both preferred the taper and control functions better...having said that I still find treble roll off with all the kits even with the 50's style wiring which claims otherwise...it really affects the neck pup most...after installing the DR. V kit in my 335 I also added a treble retention mod (1000pf/150K wired in parallel across the volumn pot) on my neck pup...bridge pup didn't need one...

    Chow,
    Seegs
     

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