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So I want to learn the piano...

jdogric12

Member
Messages
2,506
That is not the conventional T12T1234 fingering. Perhaps this is to avoid up and down movements (thumb stays on the white keys) with the thumb? I would appreciate comments from others on this.
It looks like the conventional fingering picks up with a C.
Yeah, try to cross your thumb to an Eb after hitting D with the bird finger. Not easy! LIke a game of Twister.
 
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I hope you find a good teacher. I really did have a great teacher as hard as he was on me. Scraggly beard, road a Harley, church organist at the Anglican church, and a great lover of music and working with kids. Even terrible students like me. He passed away this year and I am still a little saddened by that. He did so much for me. Let me bring my synthesizer to the year end recital one year and play some of Jarre's Oxygene on it. And in the last few years of my lessons with him (almost thirty years ago,) the little things he would say: "you play that like it's a famous piece" and commenting after hearing me play something that he'd like to see me continue music at the university level. Those things stick with you.
That's great. I had a guitar teacher until a year or two ago who's the only reason I still play music probably. His main instrument was piano but he was a pretty formidable guitar player because he'd been into shred in his younger days--one week he'd be like "do you want to learn 'Eruption'?" and then the next week he'd start talking about 12 tone serialism or maybe jazz..."yeah man, this is like something Thelonius Monk would play" and then he'd reach across and play something ridiculous. I learned about modes and everything else I know from him, pretty much. He was some kind of genius for sure. He was going back to school for an undergrad degree in music I think, and I went to one of his Bach organ/piano recitals. That blew my mind. He moved to Germany for a year, that was last summer, so I'm hoping he moves back and starts offering lessons again.

@GovernorSilver, thanks for the advice, I'll check those books out for sure. I just sent an email to a certain professor of piano so hopefully I'll be hearing back from him soon about lessons.
 

NeuroLogic

Member
Messages
1,323
Yeah, try to cross your thumb to an Eb after hitting D with the bird finger. Not easy! LIke a game of Twister.
With the pattern suggested the D is hit with the index finger. A more fluid flow is to play the E flat with a third finger and then transition to the F with the thumb. I could be wrong but I don't see the benefit in the extra mechanics of moving from the index finger to the thumb? Perhaps if the line calls for using all four fingers after the thumb?
 

p.j.

Member
Messages
4,952
My son takes Zoom piano lessons. He used to take them in person but the piano room is super tiny so we have been remote since the pandemic hit. Hopefully, he will eventually be back to in-person lessons.
 

mycroftxxx

Member
Messages
670
No, because it's guitar oriented. Keyboard Corner forum is better for this.

Books 1 and 2 of this series should give you a decent foundation if you don't want to hire a piano teacher, although honestly a teacher will help you not hurt yourself:

After Book 2 you should feel more confident to take on Well-Tempered Clavier (the first piece is easy anyway) and/or the Inventions. Inventions will require serious patience unless you're unusually gifted - be ready to spend weeks on end practicing one hand at a time before you'll be ready to play with both hands simultaneously.
I was taking piano lessons about 15 years ago; had to stop when I had a health crisis (all fine now), then work turned into a 60hr/week pressure cooker for about five years (but I got a great promotion out of it), and after that was over I went back to blues/rock guitar. Anyway, my teacher - classically trained - used these books with me. By the end, I was able to play Bach’s Prelude in C Major from The Well-Tempered Clavier well enough to do so in public at my last recital, and was could play the first movement of Beethoven’s so-called Moonlight Sonata all the way through at about 80% normal speed. But if I hadn’t had a teacher...I would have been lost.
 
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14,733
I was taking piano lessons about 15 years ago; had to stop when I had a health crisis (all fine now), then work turned into a 60hr/week pressure cooker for about five years (but I got a great promotion out of it), and after that was over I went back to blues/rock guitar. Anyway, my teacher - classically trained - used these books with me. By the end, I was able to play Bach’s Prelude in C Major from The Well-Tempered Clavier well enough to do so in public at my last recital, and was could play the first movement of Beethoven’s so-called Moonlight Sonata all the way through at about 80% normal speed. But if I hadn’t had a teacher...I would have been lost.
Very nice progress!

I was also introduced to the Alfreds books by my last piano teacher. He was a regular gigging jazz pianist. I was sent to him by another piano teacher after I spoke to her first in the teaching studio and she explained she teaches classical.

Aftewards I moved to another city. I had a coworker who turned out to be a piano teacher as well. I had her take a look at the Alfreds books. She also approved of these books and added some Post-It notes with advice.
 

mycroftxxx

Member
Messages
670
Very nice progress!

I was also introduced to the Alfreds books by my last piano teacher. He was a regular gigging jazz pianist. I was sent to him by another piano teacher after I spoke to her first in the teaching studio and she explained she teaches classical.
A big part of why, when I had time for music again, I didn’t go back to piano and instead focused on blues/rock guitar was that I had about reached all I wanted to do with classical piano, knew I wanted to start focusing on blues/rock, and it’s a lot easier to find a good blues/rock guitar teacher than a blues/rock keyboard teacher. Plus had I stuck with keys, I would have eventually had to get a B-3+Leslie to be satisfied and it wasn’t compatible with the square footage or $$$ I could dedicate to music ;)

If I wanted to resume keyboards, especially classical piano, today...it would take a good long while; I’m super rusty. And I never got that good at reading standard notation. Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata is in the key of C#-minor, which is a four-sharp key signature :eek:, plus some double sharp accidentals, plus it ranges over most of the keyboard surface so there are ledger lines galore, which reduced me to muttering, in my best Indiana Jones voice, “Ledger lines. Why did it have to be ledger lines?!”
 

Alan Dunn

Member
Messages
1,294
Yeah, I've been listening to Toccatas and Inventions performed by Glenn Gould and that stuff is intense. It'll be a while, like I said, but I think I want to do it. You can't play that stuff on guitar. I'll check those books out, too; thanks for the tip.
You do know that Goulds recordings are doctored / edited. Yes it's him playing them but there is a hell of a lot of retakes and piecing parts together from different edits.
 
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951
You do know that Goulds recordings are doctored / edited. Yes it's him playing them but there is a hell of a lot of retakes and piecing parts together from different edits.
I don't really care. I like the music; Glenn Gould was just the one I happened on first.
 

Alan Dunn

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1,294
I don't really care. I like the music; Glenn Gould was just the one I happened on first.
I don't think you realise the climb involved in being able to play this type of music well on a piano. It's throwing a no hitter in MLB type hard.

You could train all your life and never be able to come to terms with most of this music.

It's not a matter of simply saying I will do this.
 
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951
I don't think you realise the climb involved in being able to play this type of music well on a piano. It's throwing a no hitter in MLB type hard.

You could train all your life and never be able to come to terms with most of this music.

It's not a matter of simply saying I will do this.
Why are you trying to convince me not to play piano? I don't have any illusions about starting out playing 4 voice fugues--maybe you've misunderstood me? Playing that sort of stuff is a long term goal for me. And I'm not going to be dissuaded. I don't feel like playing rock anymore; I'm tired of tone-chasing and pedals and all that for the time being. I want to play contrapuntal keyboard music.

Do you want me to give up before I've even started? I don't understand the point of your post; plenty of people have learned to play the piano at an appreciable level, and I refuse to consider that I can't be one of them before even trying.
 
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14,733
I don't think you realise the climb involved in being able to play this type of music well on a piano. It's throwing a no hitter in MLB type hard.

You could train all your life and never be able to come to terms with most of this music.

It's not a matter of simply saying I will do this.
I'll probably never play like Glen Gould either. But it doesn't matter to me, because that's not my goal.

It doesn't matter if he knows the climb involved right now. It's more important to just start learning and practicing. If he truly falls in love with the piano, he's going to keep learning and playing on it of his own volition, and will eventually make progress towards a level higher than he is today. As he climbs your hypothetical mountain, if he looks up and is dismayed enough to give up, that's ok - it happens. But if he looks up and keeps going anyway, then he'll just keep ascending - no big deal.
 
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kiki_90291

Member
Messages
3,868
Why are you trying to convince me not to play piano? I don't have any illusions about starting out playing 4 voice fugues--maybe you've misunderstood me? Playing that sort of stuff is a long term goal for me. And I'm not going to be dissuaded. I don't feel like playing rock anymore; I'm tired of tone-chasing and pedals and all that for the time being. I want to play contrapuntal keyboard music.

Do you want me to give up before I've even started? I don't understand the point of your post; plenty of people have learned to play the piano at an appreciable level, and I refuse to consider that I can't be one of them before even trying.
Welcome to TGP, where you always must be doing something wrong. :)
 

Alan Dunn

Member
Messages
1,294
Why are you trying to convince me not to play piano? I don't have any illusions about starting out playing 4 voice fugues--maybe you've misunderstood me? Playing that sort of stuff is a long term goal for me. And I'm not going to be dissuaded. I don't feel like playing rock anymore; I'm tired of tone-chasing and pedals and all that for the time being. I want to play contrapuntal keyboard music.

Do you want me to give up before I've even started? I don't understand the point of your post; plenty of people have learned to play the piano at an appreciable level, and I refuse to consider that I can't be one of them before even trying.
Not at all. I want you to succeed. THat's why I said how hard it will be. I had similar thoughts to you and ended up wasting a lot of good years by not being dedicated enough to the cause.

What I'm saying is you need to give it everything. It's not a case of simply saying I'm going to do this without applying a phenomenal amount of work and dedication.

Get a really good teacher - and do whatever they ask you to do to achieve your goal. Don't try to do it on your own.
 
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