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So, let's talk about phrasing.

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by Sascha Franck, Nov 26, 2017.

  1. kimock

    kimock Member

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    I don’t need to import a partner for that exercise, I’m married with children!
     
  2. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Lol!!
    You mean you don't need to hire me to go around with you and yell... STOP!!!...PLAY!!!.. while you solo on stage??? :dunno

    :roll
     
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  3. kimock

    kimock Member

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    I never said that, I just meant at home!
     
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  4. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    I could stand in the very first row with cue cards, my back to the audience, like a conductor for your solos! No one would suspect a thing!!
    :dude:dude:dude
     
  5. jaime136

    jaime136 Supporting Member

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    The entire middle section of Paul Gilbert's Intense Rock II deals with this in a very simple way. It's usually available on Youtube, but the DVD with it and Intense Rock I is like 30 bucks on Amazon, definitely worth it.

    Here's a free sample from his online lessons, but the concept is exactly the same:

     
  6. ZippityZippity

    ZippityZippity Member

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    This might sound weird on TGP, but most of the music I listen to is rap/hip hop, and I look to a lot of rappers for phrasing ideas
     
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  7. SPH77

    SPH77 Member

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    That was cool.
     
  8. splatt

    splatt david torn / splattercell Gold Supporting Member

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    out-of-phase, phasing-out
    precisely in there, i'd say: in the realm of intensity of focus on the nuances of expression..... the shapes & arcs of the rhythm of pitches, sculpted with intention.


    but in the realm i was referencing, some random witness's opinions about "boringness" v. "excitement" are likeliest to have absolutely no meaning nor weight.
     
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  9. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Yes it was. Shows how much you can do with so little.
     
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  10. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Absolutely, stunningly beautiful. That made my night. Thank you.
     
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  11. IGuitUpIGuitDown

    IGuitUpIGuitDown Member

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    This also reinforces what I have learned from nailing so many solos n4n, especially in progressive rock music.
    I think very few solos were just cut live; because the phrasing is just so damned odd, brilliant, and totally new.
    Now this can be achieved with any bad soloing situation that has no phrasing - you simply remove the chaff to reveal the gold.

    When I wrote solos for my ex-band's songs it took quite a bit of time. I had to edit myself. I knew A, D, and G were great sections but B, C, E, and F were atrocious. So I would just wail ANYTHING and record it. Eventually I began to feel what the song needed, where I wanted to take it, and how I wanted to exit from the solo.

    But I already knew many famous solos before, so I knew that sculpting a solo was very vital.

    But I completely agree that it's the phrasing and note choices a guitarist makes that either make me a fan, or just disinterested.

    Say something while you have my ear.
    PLEASE.

    :aok
     
  12. IGuitUpIGuitDown

    IGuitUpIGuitDown Member

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    And he was someone I specifically tried to emulate in certain songs.
    Just a gigantic influence in my own playing.
    :bow
     
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  13. 9fingers

    9fingers Supporting Member

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    And when to simply not play! We guitarists are pretty bad at spaces.
    The players I like have nice long pauses at the end of, or between phrases. It makes me WANT the next phrase.
    The rests are a big part of phrasing (Jeff Beck anyone?).
     
  14. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Interesting!! Michael Schenker does sometging similar. Their are video clips of him in the studio doing millions of takes, phrase by phrase and punching in and punching out, over and over and over building every single phrase!! The only way I would allow myself to do that now would be in a pure pop song that required a Brian May type of composition lead part.

    My entire approach and interest in playing now is total improvisation. I have played with so many great players who can improvise interesting ideas for 4 plus minutes on just about any tune, a few choruses should be cake! 4 plus minutes is the goal I have set for myself. No idea if I can get their, but I always feel if others can do it, I should be able to do it much better!!
    :banana:banana:banana
     
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  15. Sascha Franck

    Sascha Franck Member

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    That is simply most excellent! Every player should just inhale this, regardless of style.
     
  16. Sascha Franck

    Sascha Franck Member

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    Guilty as charged.
    Guess it's all the way TGP style - lotsa talk, little music.
    Anyway, thinking about creating a new thread once my samples are ready to start with (well, perhaps editing the intro posting will suffice). At least there's now something truly gold on page 4, namely the Paul Gilbert vid.
     
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  17. JonR

    JonR Member

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    Nice dialogue with the piano too.
     
  18. JonR

    JonR Member

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    Excellent stuff. I don't like his playing much, but everything he says there is right on the money. I've rarely heard it explained better.
    Even by this guy:

    (Dizzy anecdote at 2:00, supporting what Gilbert is saying: rhythm first.)
     
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  19. Jon

    Jon Member

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    Sounds like a good idea - I think it was Guthrie Govan who said something about listening to great public speakers to see how they phrase things e.g. the way they will often group similar phrases into threes, or repeat the first part of a phrase several times but with something different after it each time - lots of ideas there.
     
  20. Sascha Franck

    Sascha Franck Member

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    Regarding speech/narration, to sort of paraphrase Scott Henderson:
    "Ed buys some tomatoes."
    "Ed buys some oranges."
    "Ed buys some apples."
    Etc.
    "Ed has sex with his girlfriend."
    "Oh, why not do it again? Ed has sex with his girlfriend!"
    "Hey, why not again? Ed REALLY has sex with his girlfriend!"

    (From the aforementioned video, considering the important/un-boring parts you might want to get through in your playing, aka "milking an idea".)
     

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