Soloing out of context

Discussion in 'The Sound Hound Lounge' started by Capador, Aug 9, 2019.

  1. misterturtlehead

    misterturtlehead Member

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    I have never cared for playing a solo in a cover exactly note for note from the record. To me, somebody else played that solo. I am not that person. I am me. I want to play my own solo. But I have found that if I have heard a tune enough times I might find myself quoting some of the original solo. And if the tune has a similar chord progression to another tune I might quote some of the other tune. For example, when I have to play "Knockin' On Heaven's Door" I sometimes quote a line from "Mainstreet" by Bob Seger. That line in "Mainstreet" also can be played while playing "Ramblin' Man" by the Allman Brothers Band. Though quoting a line from one tune and putting it in another tune isn't necessarily playing out of context. Though maybe playing an entire solo of variations of that line in "Mainstreet" for the entire "Ramblin' Man" solo might. But I might consider that a challenge. However, when I am playing "Ramblin' Man" there is a pretty good possibility that I am playing other "southern rock" favorites for an "audience" who may be into "southern rock". Some might not grok my variations of the "Mainstreet" line in "Ramblin' Man". Though I reckon it is up to me to decide how much I play those "Mainstreet" variations because I can't please everybody, don't feel like I have to try to please everybody, odds are pretty high nobody will be bothered enough by it to want to fight me about it, and eventually the tune will end and we will play something else.
     
  2. andrekp

    andrekp Member

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    People who point to modern country music as if, suddenly, it’s not country anymore, don’t seem to have paid much attention since 1960. Look at how many of the biggest country hits had strings and big bands. Watch one of those CD collection infomercials for a classic country music collection one day. What people long for a return to was a small section of country music since the late 50’s.

    It’s like claiming that Rock music has been ruined since people stopped making music like the Ramones.
     
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  3. bobcs71

    bobcs71 Member

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    I like country music. It's hard for me to take that Chet was instrumental (pun intended) to the pop influences back then.

    Country isn't dead. Reference anything Dave Cobb is producing.
     
  4. andrekp

    andrekp Member

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    Not all of it was Chet, but a survey of the biggest country music for the last 50 years would reveal that very little of it is what people think of now as classic country. Country music had been trying for decades to shed the hillbilly sounds.

    I don't like Cobb. Everything he touches sounds like it was recorded on 78's through an old Pringles can. That Miranda Lambert double cd from a couple years back is a great album, nearly done in by trendy bad production.
     
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  5. Bankston

    Bankston Supporting Member

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    Incoming!

    I'm just the opposite. I would point to Neil's solos as examples of tastefully playing for the song.

    When I think of soloing out of context I think of Yngwie or Steve Vai trying to play blues or John Mayer trying to play 80's shred.
     
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  6. Bankston

    Bankston Supporting Member

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    Speaking of out of context. Priest masterfully made their covers of Green Manalishi and Diamonds and Rust into their own. The same cannot be said of this abomination:

     
  7. Barquentine

    Barquentine Member

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    I played at a blues jam yesterday. I got to play with a young guitarist/singer who called 'Tush' for the first song. When he took his solo it was Gary Moore/EVH/Vai melded together. He could do this stuff well but it was completely inappropriate, like having Tony Iommi play his doomiest solo in 'Take Me Home Country Roads'.
     
  8. 67blackcherry

    67blackcherry Supporting Member

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    Ok, you can just leave with that sort of attitude, Mister!
    I always thought (and still do) that Neil’s solos were perfect; flashy yet melodic, technical but not over the top.

    I do agree, the solo should always fit the song - ALWAYS - but sometimes it works, depending on the player.
    Years ago, small club in Huntington Beach called Perqs, some European dude playing the blues, Jimi, SRV and playing VERY WELL...through an ADA at that...and he’s whipping out these 80s “metal god in-waiting” licks and he sounded great.
    How in the heck he made them fit I still have no idea.

    I go up to him during a break and say “I don’t recall Jimi or Stevie playing arpeggios...” and wait for his response.
    He gets a bit defensive and says he’s just playing what he wants, etc... I tell him I’m only busting your balls, you sound great and you’re an amazing guitarist!
    That sorta caught him off guard, we ended up chatting about gear, that’s when he said he was using an ADA...honest to God that thing sounded like Stevie’s cranked Super Reverb, I couldn’t believe it.

    I guess it all depends on the player as always, cause he made it work and it sounded great; if someone had told me prior to seeing him I’d say “you’re tripping” but I guess that’s the exception, definitely not the rule.
     
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  9. bigtone23

    bigtone23 Member

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    The SRV with Bowie thing was a pretty darn good fit. Bowie saw something magical in SRV and had to have it on his record. SRV was still himself yet kept it open for the more groove oriented pop album.
    Eliot Easton is very tasteful with everything I have heard from him. I like how Best Friend's Girl is framed with classic country riffing and the solo is fenced between fiery Bakersfield and rock. Well done!

    Otherwise, I prefer solos to be mostly stylistically appropriate. Throwing a bar of shred or tapping in the blues, accompanied by a smile or laugh is entertainment and only really understood if the listener is there in the room seeing it happen. That wouldn't necessarily translate to an audio recording.

    Oh, another interesting one is "When Love Comes To Town" by U2. Kind of a I/IV soul/Motown/blues feeling tune, the bass pedals the I pretty much all the way through, which gives the tonality a very U2 feel. BB plays his trademark blues over the I/IV moving chord progression, which fits fine. However, when The Edge comes in with his trademark, open, sustainy, darker solo, I feel it's a way out of the box from a soul/Motown/blues standpoint, but perfectly in place for U2. It takes you to a different place and I love it.
     
  10. Rockledge

    Rockledge Member

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    Back during rock leads were normally well thought out and were tasteful and relevant to the song.
    Even guys who played complex fast leads like Alvin Lee always did so in the context of the song and did parts that benefited the song, rather than just merely being a display of flurries of notes.
    To some degree I blame Eddie Van Halen for changing that. He himself on early VH albums did great leads that did indeed compliment the songs, but he started a whole fad of songs being built around guitar wankering, rather than guitar parts being there to augment the song.
    After VH got popular ( which happened very quickly) it seems the whole hair band thing bloomed and leads , rather than being musical, just became finger exercises. As I say, guitarists became plate spinners, like the guys on Ed Sullivan spinning plates on pool sticks trying to see how many they could keep going at a time.
    I also think that is part of what put an end to the rock era.
    I would rather hear Joe Walshs leads in Funk 49 or Walk away than all the licks guys like Steve Vai and Joe Satriani can play.

    Some of the guys during rock were good at both, guys like Jimmy Page and Ritchie Blackmore, for example. The could do the amazing finger calisthenics while at the same time being tasteful. But that seems to have gotten lost and taken a back seat to mindless wankering and merely playing leads just as a display of guitar skills rather than making a musical statement in the late 70s well into the 80s and beyond.

    One guy who I thought always remained tasteful in his guitar work even though he ranks among the most proficient is Steve Morse.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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  11. dhdfoster

    dhdfoster Silver Supporting Member

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    Gary Moore's playing is perfect for when you feel like getting yelled at, but there is no one around to do it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  12. sixty2strat

    sixty2strat Member

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    I think one of the keys is the song, the thrill is gone won't lend itself to dive bombs and finger taping unless you EVH and VH fans will eat it up. My band is doing Waterloo sunset, NO frigging way would I change that solo even if Ray asked me to. That said the singer n drummer want to do sympathy for the devil. I am burned out on the tune but I gave in. I play the Taylor Solo right and pretty much nail. Yet to amuse myself I want to get weird. As it is a song about Satan I think dissonance and exotic sounds will add something. I have been experiment at home and in rehearsal trying to ad new to old. So to me I picked a song to stray a bit in that would seem logical and I am testing it out, making sure it is tasteful and works vs doing hey I can play an altered scale look at me.
     
  13. jimijimmyjeffy

    jimijimmyjeffy Member

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    This thread is a moving target for me.

    I do dislike solos that really are clueless and inappropriate to the actual context that is there.

    That's way different than just playing the song however the F you want and making it actually work, no?

    I'm with everyone who like to play their own solo, reinterpret and/or rearrange. I do that more than I don't do it. Bottom line, if I really want something to be musically BEST I have to make it my own, because I ain't good enough at being someone else. The extent I want to do that varies with the song.

    But there really are times when whatever the music happens to be, someone's solo just doesn't fit or work.
     
  14. Go Cat Go!!

    Go Cat Go!! Member

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    I threw out the Gary Moore Hendrix tribute Blu-Ray. Absolutely no nuance at all. I said it before but even Moore's subtlety was on 10. I love his early rock period but he lost me with the "blues". It was a dick move to open the tribute to Phil Lynott with one of his own songs.
     
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  15. 2Badde

    2Badde Member

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    I quickly went from a "don't care either way" attitude to complete admiration for EE - when I had to learn a number of Cars songs and do my best to emulate his work. Waaaayyyy back in the 80s and I still enjoy his style today. He also did quite a remarkable job in that John-less CCR act that was going around in the early 2000s.
     
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  16. Antmax

    Antmax Member

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    The good thing about Still got the Blues was that it made me look at Blues and other artists other than Deep Purple and the NWOBHM that followed. People like Peter Green, Eric Clapton (I'm British) and then look at their inspirations across the pond. In the end I guess Gary wouldn't be Gary if he didn't go a bit over the top. But at the same time, some of the contrasts are very jarring when he has one of his episodes. Played great 70% of the time, had a crazy fit about 10% lol. Fantastic player when he didn't let things run away too far.
     
  17. 27sauce

    27sauce Member

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    Funny! I don't hear it that way. I guess the producer/arranger in me wants to hear elements of the melody, or the song it self for that matter, in the solo. It's like, cool pop rock songs then out of nowhere, "Guitar Center" for 20 seconds. And back to the great pop record. Love is a battle field is tasteful playing for the song. I like him on that one.
     
  18. Go Cat Go!!

    Go Cat Go!! Member

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    You must hate Andy Summers' solo on "When the World is Running Down...". I love it. It's so jarring and angry and from out of nowhere. It fits the lyrics perfectly.
     
  19. Bankston

    Bankston Supporting Member

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    To me a solo -- regardless of the genre of music or composition -- should be like a "song within a song." In popular music, the best solos capture the emotional content of the music and lyrics and deliver a climax to the song, if you'll pardon the choice of words. Spyder is one of the best of his generation at doing just that.

    Hit Me with Your Best is a mid-tempo rocker in E Major. The music sounds happy. But the lyrics are pretty dark because they deal with domestic abuse. The hook is defiant and taunting. Spyder's solo delivers one melodic punch after another and perfectly captures the tone of the dark lyrics balanced against the happy feel of the music.

    His solos in songs like Jessie's Girl and Promises in the Dark are so integral to the song that I can't imagine hearing those songs without the solos in them.
     
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  20. BlueRiff

    BlueRiff Member

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    Interesting take. I’ve always felt his solos are composed from the chords vs. blues rock riff patterns. Maybe that’s why it sounds out of context for rock.
     

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