Something in between a PA and Studio Monitors?

[Sixstringedmatt]

I think my search might be a little hopeless but wanted to ask this knowledgeable group. I don’t have space for both types of speakers.

I’m a Kemper user who uses 5” JBL studio monitors at home in an untreated bedroom.

• I sit about a foot or two away from them.
• I have no ability to configure that in a different way or treat the room.

I just got back from jamming with a buddy through a HeadRush FRFR112 and loved the sounds at high and low volume (his room is much bigger than mine however which I know affects sound).

I find my tone to lack some bass and would love something like the HeadRush FR108 and know it’s probably overkill with an apartment.

Is there anything in between a wedge and studio monitors that could pass at home and keep up with a drummer on a digital kit based on what I want?

So far the Roland Streetcube (50w) comes to mind but it was not a great speaker in my mind. My monitors sounded better minus the bass.

 

[Lord N]

A foot away from the speakers is too close.
You could get a sub for your monitors.

 

[Watt McCo]

I think my search might be a little hopeless but wanted to ask this knowledgeable group. I don’t have space for both types of speakers.

I’m a Kemper user who uses 5” JBL studio monitors at home in an untreated bedroom.

• I sit about a foot or two away from them.
• I have no ability to configure that in a different way or treat the room.

I just got back from jamming with a buddy through a HeadRush FRFR112 and loved the sounds at high and low volume (his room is much bigger than mine however which I know affects sound).

I find my tone to lack some bass and would love something like the HeadRush FR108 and know it’s probably overkill with an apartment.

Is there anything in between a wedge and studio monitors that could pass at home and keep up with a drummer on a digital kit based on what I want?

So far the Roland Streetcube (50w) comes to mind but it was not a great speaker in my mind. My monitors sounded better minus the bass.

Its the room and placement, not the speaker.

 

[mdubya]

IMHO:

1. Small studio monitors sound best for low volume at home tones.

2. Get the HeadRush and pair it with the monitors you have.

I do this with Presonus e4.5 monitors and my Xitone 1x12. The combination is glorious and better than either on its own. The Presonus give a nice tight response and the Xitone is wide open.

 

[Rewolf]

Agree about room and placement

5" woofer is fine for reproducing low end of a guitar, a sub would only be doing < 100Hz and there is very little of that from a guitar. Some people have reported that JBL 305 are a little lacking in the low end, but frequence response charts I have seen show a reasonable response down to 40Hz - perhaps 5 or 6 db down. You can use some EQ to counter that.

The position of the speakers in the room is more likely to be causing boundary reflections or exciting room modes that are cancelling out the low end frequencies. I know from experience how dramatic that effect can be. Swapping to a different speaker placed in the same position is likely to get a similar result.

"You cannae change the laws of physics, Cap'n!"

 

[caledoneus]

I think my search might be a little hopeless but wanted to ask this knowledgeable group. I don’t have space for both types of speakers.

I’m a Kemper user who uses 5” JBL studio monitors at home in an untreated bedroom.

• I sit about a foot or two away from them.
• I have no ability to configure that in a different way or treat the room.

I just got back from jamming with a buddy through a HeadRush FRFR112 and loved the sounds at high and low volume (his room is much bigger than mine however which I know affects sound).

I find my tone to lack some bass and would love something like the HeadRush FR108 and know it’s probably overkill with an apartment.

Is there anything in between a wedge and studio monitors that could pass at home and keep up with a drummer on a digital kit based on what I want?

So far the Roland Streetcube (50w) comes to mind but it was not a great speaker in my mind. My monitors sounded better minus the bass.

could get bigger studio monitors. Kali makes some 8" that are supposed to be pretty good.

 

[Lord N]

Agree about room and placement

5" woofer is fine for reproducing low end of a guitar, a sub would only be doing < 100Hz and there is very little of that from a guitar. Some people have reported that JBL 305 are a little lacking in the low end, but frequence response charts I have seen show a reasonable response down to 40Hz - perhaps 5 or 6 db down. You can use some EQ to counter that.

The position of the speakers in the room is more likely to be causing boundary reflections or exciting room modes that are cancelling out the low end frequencies. I know from experience how dramatic that effect can be. Swapping to a different speaker placed in the same position is likely to get a similar result.

"You cannae change the laws of physics, Cap'n!"

This is just so wrong.

 

[Rewolf]

This is just so wrong.

In what way?

Remember the OP has a small room and limited options for speaker positioning. I have a small room, but am free to move speakers where I want.

I have two sets of speakers that are respected as being flat, and when measured close up using a measurement mic and a sweep in REW are reasonably flat given that I am still in the room (+/- 3db) - the larger set from 35Hz up the 20KHz, the smaller set from 50Hz up to 20KHz. The speakers by themselves are flat.

When measured in my original listening position at an average volume of 75db I had a 33db variation in the volume of 111Hz (53db) and 132Hz (86db).
Down at 62db again at 320Hz too.

Without treating the room or moving speaker location what speaker do you recommend I should buy to fix this?

 

[Lord N]

In what way?

In that way: There are subs that go far beyond 100hz. Some even up to 300hz... and the guitar range is not "very little" in that area.

I have two sets of speakers that are respected as being flat, and when measured close up using a measurement mic and a sweep in REW are reasonably flat given that I am still in the room (+/- 3db) - the larger set from 35Hz up the 20KHz, the smaller set from 50Hz up to 20KHz. The speakers by themselves are flat.

When measured in my original listening position at an average volume of 75db I had a 33db variation in the volume of 111Hz (53db) and 132Hz (86db).
Down at 62db again at 320Hz too.

There are so many variables and so many things to make wrong with speaker measurements that i can't give statements like that any kind of worth (no offense intended).
But let's assume your measurements are correct, how is any of that relevant to the OP?

 

[Rewolf]

Because the OP is acknowledging that there might be an issue with the room but is hoping that changing to a different speaker will change this.
Some rooms are just sh*t, and mine is one of them. If the position he has to use means that boundary effect is going to cancel the low end then it doesn't matter which speaker is in that position. Putting the speaker in a completely different position could change everything. Or not.

The obvious suggestion to the OP would be to invite your friend to bring his FRFR 112 so you can try it in your room; or find somebody with a FRFR 108, or the Alto versions and try them.

 

[JWDubois]

I use a pair of Yamaha HS8 monitors along with the matching HS8S sub in a ~20'x30' room. I play guitar, bass, keyboards, and VDrums through them.

The sub adds a nice extra to the low end which really helps the kick drum, bass, and keyboard, and adds some extra thump to the guitar as well.

I have the sub set so that it is only really noticeable when it's off, but that's enough.

The nice thing is, when you're sitting in the sweet spot it seems powerful, but it's not really all that loud.

 

[Sixstringedmatt]

Thank you all for the discussion, it's very helpful. As I can't add any more equipment to the room, I'm left with speaker placement or to take a chance on something like the Headrush 108 and return it if it doesn't work out.

I can get more distance from the speakers, but I'd have to break the equilateral pattern I've positioned myself in. I'd move to corners as well, which I know might add TOO much bass. I'll give it a go when I can rearrange and see how that works, too.

 

[Monstercastle]

I have the JBL 305's in a 12'x12' untreated room that is also my office. I also have 2 of the Headrush 108's. The 108's sound so much better than the JBL's for just jamming or practicing, so the JBL's get little play. The JBL's are more balanced and flat I'm sure, but the Headrush are just more fun. I'm primarily using an Axe FX III through them, but the Helix sounds good too. I'd vote for trying out a single 108 and see what you think, assuming you can afford.

 

[PBGas]

Try the 108. It is a cheaper monitor but might give you what you are looking for to play through with a bit more bottom at lower volumes. It isn't a bad unit but it isn't as great as everyone says either. It does it's intended job at that price point.

If you are using higher gain or lower tuning patches when playing, you will need to adjust your bass accordingly and use the flat switch in the back or the unit will not sound great.
I have have tried a couple of them at different times over the last year and they were ok but didn't end up working for me at a higher volumes. Using it as a personal monitor pointed up at me while playing live was fine. Using it as a backline, not great at all.

 

[Watt McCo]

This is just so wrong.

What's so wrong about it? A sub shouldn't be handling anything much beyond 100 Hz; the fundamental of the low E of a 6-string is

Try the 108. It is a cheaper monitor but might give you what you are looking for to play through with a bit more bottom at lower volumes. It isn't a bad unit but it isn't as great as everyone says either. It does it's intended job at that price point.

If you are using higher gain or lower tuning patches when playing, you will need to adjust your bass accordingly and use the flat switch in the back or the unit will not sound great.
I have have tried a couple of them at different times over the last year and they were ok but didn't end up working for me at a higher volumes. Using it as a personal monitor pointed up at me while playing live was fine. Using it as a backline, not great at all.

The JBL 305s actually have quite a bit more low end extension. They can also play pretty darn loud - but most folks (myself included at the moment) have them on a desk without much isolation and so you get all sorts of rattles once you start trying to crank them up.

If the 108s are feeling more visceral and the person using it isn't cranking it to 95+dB then its likely due to (a) the 108 being placed on the floor, and so thus getting a significant boost in the low-end from boundary reinforcement + giving that general visceral feeling of activating the floor and/or (b) the 108 not being nearly as flat in the sub-200Hz range as the 305s due to trying to squeeze as much out of an 8" woofer in as small a box as possible. The good news is (a) you can put the 305s on the floor and turn them up quite loud too and (b) you can easily EQ the non-flatness of the 108 into the 305s. Just give youre global EQ a tweak to give a nice hump in the lower mids.

Quite honestly, I find the best way to make my 305s more "visceral" is to cut bass to get rid of <100Hz mud so I can turn them up louder with less rattling/mud.

 

[Watt McCo]

Alternatively, one could try Billy Bell-end/EL84 Abusers preferred approach of mounting your near field monitors under a desk...

 

[Lord N]

What's so wrong about it? A sub shouldn't be handling anything much beyond 100 Hz; the fundamental of the low E of a 6-string is

80hz?
See my other post. A whole lot of monitor subs go up to 300hz.
There is no usable placement that will give the 5" studio monitors the same bass feel as a 112" PA speaker.

 

[Rocco Crocco]

At home I play at my desk with my 5" JBLs in front of me and a Powercab about 10 feet behind me. I get my sound with the monitors, then dial in a little Powercab from behind me to fill in. Sounds epic.

 

[Watt McCo]

80hz?
See my other post. A whole lot of monitor subs go up to 300hz.
There is no usable placement that will give the 5" studio monitors the same bass feel as a 112" PA speaker.

Why?!? That makes no sense if you're talking about same placement and at a volume within the range that you can EQ-match the 5" monitor to that of the 12" PA speaker. Most 12" PA speakers are using the larger surface area for volume, not low-end extension -- a whole lot of 5" monitors have lower bass extension than 12" PA speakers.

 

[Lord N]

Why?!? That makes no sense if you're talking about same placement and at a volume within the range that you can EQ-match the 5" monitor to that of the 12" PA speaker.

Really... you gonna EQ match JBL near field monitors to give you the same experience as a 112" PA speaker? At enough volume to jam with his e-drum buddy? Also i said placement, i'd hope that Op has tried to EQ before posting....

a whole lot of 5" monitors have lower bass extension than 12" PA speakers.

Irrelevant in this case. I'm pretty sure op wants more bass, not more range or accuracy.