Sonar 4...Or...Adobe Audition 1.5?

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by jzucker, Sep 1, 2004.

  1. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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    I was just about to order Sonar 4 when I thought that maybe I'd be better off buying Adobe Audition for $150 since it purportedly has much superior audio editing which is 90% of what I use Sonar for. It might also integrate better with Adobe Premiere which I use for video editing.

    Thoughts?

    P.S.

    I assume with rewire technology, I can use Sonar and import into Audition for editing...
     
  2. Screamer

    Screamer Member

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    I would do more inverstigation on the actual compatibilty with Premiere.

    Audition is not a native Adobe product. It used to be Syntrillium's Cool Edit Pro 2, but was bought by Adobe last year and just given a new title.
     
  3. Bassomatic

    Bassomatic Silver Supporting Member

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    Jack-

    Have you checked out Cubase SX?
     
  4. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny Member

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    but then again, anything Adobe touches turns to Adobe gold with other Adobe products.
     
  5. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    Jack Audition 1.5 for the money is untouchable...
    Some stuff like the frequency editing costs you about 2500 as an algorithmix plug-in for Sequoia or Pyramix.
     
  6. Impulse 101

    Impulse 101 Member

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    I have used Cool Edit/Audition at work. The Production guys at our radio station love it. Whereas I use Protools at work Radio and TV production and Sonar 3 producer at home. I originally got Sonar 2.2 XL because it was an easy program to use for demoing ideas for my band. After a bit of a learning curve, an adjustment period from my years on ProTools and several upgrades and debugging sessions Sonar is turning into a serious production tool. Audition isn't anywhere near it's level yet, not even close.

    The MIDI and Software synth/sampler support in Sonar is enough to turn the tide right off the bat. But the ease of arrangement and the musician friendly nature of Sonar makes it a slam dunk in that contest. Sonar 3 fixed all the audio engine deficiencies that Sonar 2 had, Sonar 4 is adding more power in Acidized loop support. Surround support and the ability to import quicktime and AVI video files.

    I've used ProTools (professionally), Cubase, Logic, (many years at home before they dropped PC support) Paris (great program, too bad it died) and Digital Perfromer. Without a doubt if I was building a professional studio and had a good budget I'd get a Digital Performer system. But since I don't use a mac and I don't have 5 grand to spend I chose Sonar. Although it's been a little bit of a process in waiting to get Sonar up to speed, Sonar is now (IMHO) every bit as good as Nuendo at half of the price.

    JT
     
  7. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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    Gotta disagree with you there bud...Sonar is quirky and buggy as hell. I love the program's features but hate its buggyness. Just yesterday I was trying to fix a glitch in a song with an overdub so I put in an auto-punch and it was very frustrating because even though I had specified the grid to always be on zero cross over points, it would punch in at a non zero cross over point and give me a pop everytime I listened back to it.

    I finally had to just overdub a a new track and use slip edit to feather the in and out of the punch-in.

    Additionally, I was moving some stuff around and ended up accidentally deleting the entire track. Not just the clip, the whole track. So I hit the undo button and nothing happens. Whatever key I hit to remove the entire track did not get put onto the undo stack! :mad:

    It's a program with great potential but they've always been overly concerned with making bullet lists of features that compare to cubase instead of just making the basic functionality work.

    I'm going to finish my current projects in sonar but I'll be switching to nuendo or cubase when I'm done.
     
  8. Impulse 101

    Impulse 101 Member

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    I havn't had any of that kind of buggy-ness. The only problems that I've encountered were system crashes that I later fixed by removing some programs in the background.

    I've got no great loyalty to Cakewalk, because of the cheap way they make you buy additional utilities that should be included into the software. (Remember how Sonar 2.2XL made you buy an MP3 encoder seperately after you discovered that it wouldn't do it on its own!) But Sonar has been very stable when it comes to that kind of stuff on my PC. But I did build my PC for audio and it does have a lot of RAM (1.4 gig) and plenty of thru-put on its internal busses.

    As for the track delete problem, did you get theaudio file back out of your audio bin or was it gone from there too?

    JT
     
  9. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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    Everyone I know with Sonar has had the same experiences! :)

    I'm running a P4 3ghz with 1gb of memory so that shouldn't be a prob.
    No, I just saved without quitting and lost recent changes.

    I have my machine pretty much streamlined. Actually the crashes aren't as much a problem as bugs. My main complaint is it not using the zero crossing point and getting clicks when overdubbing or slip editing. Usually I can get it to do what I want to after going back and forth but it really should work right the first and every time!
     
  10. Impulse 101

    Impulse 101 Member

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    Interesting, thank goodness that there are options. Eventually we all find what works for us. I'll do some auto punches tonight and see what I get. I usually go in and trim that kind of thing anyway.

    Like I said, in a perfect world I'd be mac'ed up with DP. I'l love to run two G5's one for soft Synths and samplers and one for PD. I have a friend who runs that kind of system and it's stellar.

    JT
     
  11. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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    Apparently folks are having problems with tics and pops with the G5 and Firewire audio devices so despite recent rants and raves from folks about how problem-free macs are, it's not a panacea.

    Not sure if I'll upgrade to version 4 of Sonar or not at this point. My opinion is that they are more interested in adding features than fixing bugs which is true of most software companies but the good ones (Adobe) get the bugs fixed at a high priority. The zero-crossover bug has been in Cakewalk since version 9. That's pretty bad.
     
  12. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    FWIW Jack zero-xing will make for less of a click and pop issue but it does not eliminate it...in any soft. No matter whta the developers would like you to think. Especially in multiple tracks when you're dealing with stuff that ideally should be in phase.
     
  13. Impulse 101

    Impulse 101 Member

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    I usually "touch up" any DAW punch anyway. I don't use the Auto Zero function. But I've never had any serious pop issues that I didn't consider par for the course. Besides being able to fix it is worlds better than using ADATs or any other digital tape format.

    JT
     
  14. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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    What's zero-xing?
     
  15. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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    I don't know JT...Digital should be simpler than tape. With my old tascam analog 8 track, I could do seamless punchins without having to fuss around with slip editing. It should just work. Making excuses for it is well...Just an excuse! :D

    Did you say you're upgrading to 4? I'm still on the fence about it.
     
  16. Impulse 101

    Impulse 101 Member

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    ADAT's do an automatic crossfade but they have no ability to find a zero point and they are still digital, they can pop worse than you could imagine. For the most part I was really lucky with my ADATs. I bought them in 94 and have thousands of hours on them but at times they are the most frustrating piece of musical gear I've ever used. Tapes eaten at the worst possible moments. Run away slave decks. Long rewind and cue times. Bad batches of tape from Quantagy (Ampex) and 3M that fouled the heads. Worn and dried out pinch rollers.... I'm much happier with my DAWS. :)

    Analog tape punches are different because of the way that an erase head causes a faux x-fade when it powers up to degause the tape. Of course analog has it's own problems.

    and

    zero-xing= zero crossing point

    JT
     
  17. Unburst

    Unburst Member

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    Jack-I don't know if this will help, but when I'm done recording and punching a track I'll select the whole thing and have DP put a 5ms crossfade over all the punch-in points.
    It takes me seconds to do this and it eliminates 99% of punch-in clicks.
     
  18. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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    I've done that before when recording the overdub on an alternate track but as I recall, that doesn't work well with the auto-punch feature. It seems like the fade-out doesn't always match the fade-in from my recollection.

    Sonar 4 seems to have a nice solution to the problem with their track layer feature. I've always loved the idea of layers (being an Adobe Photoshop user). I always thought it was the perfect paradigm for recording as well.
     
  19. Impulse 101

    Impulse 101 Member

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    Oh, yeah. I'm getting the upgrade to 4 for free since I just upgraded to 3 recently. So as soon as I got the E-mail from Cakewalk about 4 I was on the phone to Cakewalk and Sweetwater bitching up a storm. They both promised to make it good. I'm going to Sweetwater to do some tracking in their studio next month. (Oct 2nd) I'm looking forward to having my way with their Neumann and Manley collection. :dude

    JT
     
  20. jzucker

    jzucker Supporting Member

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    Thanks for the tip. I called them and complained about recently buying the Producer upgrade so they gave me the producer 4 upgrade for $99.
     

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