Sorry - but I'm just not hearing modelers as sounding "real" for live use

Guitardave

Member
Messages
10,083
Doesn't mean they don't sound good - but it's a far cry from the real deal.

Listen to this clip - nothing wrong with the tones until I listen to them compared to the drums!! The guitar just sounds artificial in comparison. And this is the Fractal AX8 in the hands of a someone who knows what they are doing with it, and a sound system run by professionals.


Please post some live examples where ANY of the fully modeled rigs actually sound like a real guitar rig. And this is coming from the audience's perspective.

EDIT:


I've played in bands where the drummers use V-drums - they sound fine, but nothing like the experience of the acoustic kits. I'm still hearing the modeled rigs suffering from the same challenges. I've already jumped into the whole modeling world so don't lynch me just because I hear a big delta between an amp/cab in the room with the PA providing re-enforcement and a fully modeled signal chain thru the PA.
 
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Powderfinger

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
11,389
Doesn't mean they don't sound good - but it's a far cry from the real deal.

Listen to this clip - nothing wrong with the tones but listen to them compared to the drums!! The guitar just sounds artificial in comparison.


Please post some live examples where ANY of the fully modeled rigs actually sound like a real guitar rig. And this is coming from the audience's perspective.
I don't particularly care for that tone but this is like posting a clip of a guy playing through an amp with not great tone and saying "amps don't sound good." It's just one particular guy's tone.
 

mikah912

Member
Messages
7,211
Please post some live examples where ANY of the fully modeled rigs actually sound like a real guitar rig. And this is coming from the audience's perspective.
No offense, but that seems pointless. "Realness" (like "feel""squish""chunk" and "haunting mids") is an esoteric concept that can't be quantified.
 

atquinn

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
9,748
Doesn't mean they don't sound good - but it's a far cry from the real deal.

Listen to this clip - nothing wrong with the tones until I listen to them compared to the drums!! The guitar just sounds artificial in comparison. And this is the Fractal AX8 in the hands of a someone who knows what they are doing with it, and a sound system run by professionals.


Please post some live examples where ANY of the fully modeled rigs actually sound like a real guitar rig. And this is coming from the audience's perspective.
Obvious troll is obvious :rolleyes:

I hate myself for even responding, but...
-
Austin
 

LPV

Member
Messages
700
That's really poorly mixed. Guitar is way too quiet or the video was taken too close to the stage. 50ft back in the center it probably sounded better. Something really directional about it. Base tone is fine to my ears.
 

Guitardave

Member
Messages
10,083
Like the clip I posted that sounds great but without something real playing alongside it its not very useful. It's the comparison to the real amp rigs where the modeling differences become so apparent. Doesn't mean they aren't incredibly useful - just that they don't seem to sound a real rig in a typical room. I thought that would mostly be only from the player's perspective - now I'm hearing the exact same thing from an audience perspective.

I've played in bands where the drummers use V-drums - they sound fine, but nothing like the experience of the acoustic kits. I'm still hearing the modeled rigs suffering from the same challenges. I've already jumped into the whole modeling world so don't lynch me just because I hear a big delta between an amp/cab in the room with the PA providing re-enforcement and a fully modeled signal chain thru the PA.
 
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barhrecords

Member
Messages
1,523
Like the clip I posted that sounds great but without something real its not very useful. It's the comparison to the real amp rigs where the modeling differences become so apparent. Doesn't mean they aren't incredibly useful - just that they don't seem to sound a real rig in a typical room. I thought that would mostly be only from the player's perspective - now I'm hearing the exact same thing from an audience perspective.
Yeah you don't see much comparisons like that except for the Kemper... because to profile you need the real amp too.

I did a bunch of A/B comparisons for myself with the Fractal. If I use a decent solid state power amp and a guitar cab, I get it close enough to fool me.

Close mice'ed IR's and a good FRFR will not sound like an amp and cab. But a good preamp like the Fractal into a power amp and cab can.
 

jageya

Member
Messages
4,251
Doesn't mean they don't sound good - but it's a far cry from the real deal.

Listen to this clip - nothing wrong with the tones until I listen to them compared to the drums!! The guitar just sounds artificial in comparison. And this is the Fractal AX8 in the hands of a someone who knows what they are doing with it, and a sound system run by professionals.


Please post some live examples where ANY of the fully modeled rigs actually sound like a real guitar rig. And this is coming from the audience's perspective.
i think Larry uses a ton of effects so it may sound processed alot on these kind of vids...He must stack on a ton of effects-sounds like it
 

atquinn

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
9,748
i think Larry uses a ton of effects so it may sound processed alot on these kind of vids...He must stack on a ton of effects-sounds like it
I don't think that's it. It sounds like the drums are being fed to a monitor that is close to the cameraphone and the guitars are not. In addition the drums have no ambience on them whatsoever and the guitar obviously does. Might it have sounded different 10 feet to the right or left? Perhaps. Also, "sound system run by professionals"? Where to begin with this statement. Have you never gone to see a show where the mix was bad? Do you think its because the sound systems was run by amateurs? :roll
-
Austin
 

Semitone

Member
Messages
899
Another thread by a TGPer who would be better off spending more time playing and less time trolling. Gooofy!!
 

Guitardave

Member
Messages
10,083
Obvious troll is obvious :rolleyes:

I hate myself for even responding, but...
-
Austin
Wow - if that's what your standard is for trolling I guess it's time for me to step away from TGP.

Your clips sounds great and totally realistic. It sounds like a board recording that's been fully mixed. I'd just like to hear an audience clip where the guitar sounds real in the room like the acoustic drum kit did.
 

Guitardave

Member
Messages
10,083
I don't think that's it. It sounds like the drums are being fed to a monitor that is close to the cameraphone and the guitars are not. In addition the drums have no ambience on them whatsoever and the guitar obviously does. Might it have sounded different 10 feet to the right or left? Perhaps. Also, "sound system run by professionals"? Where to begin with this statement. Have you never gone to see a show where the mix was bad? Do you think its because the sound systems was run by amateurs? :roll
-
Austin
Largely agree. As for the PA system - it's a clip from NAMM, hopefully they meet the criteria for being professionals.
 

weshunter

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
6,236
Here's me playing in a dive bar with some friends doing a song we'd never done before but with some soloing.

This is helix straight into the pa recorded with a crappy camcorder. It's not great playing but I don't think I could tell the difference between my tone here and my real amp tone.


 
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KenG

Member
Messages
1,482
OK let's take another approach at this to determine what YOU think is good tone. You've posted what you DON'T like, please post some live clip recorded from a similar situation that demonstrates what you call "real". Then we can discuss with a comparison point.
 
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Frank Ritchotte

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
6,468
Here's me playing in a dive bar with some friends doing a song we'd never done before but with some soloing.

This is helix straight into the pa recorded with a crappy camcorder. It's not great playing but I don't think I could tell the difference between my time here and my real amp tone.


Great job man! Dive bars ROCK!
 




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