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Sorry if this has already been out there.

conanb

Member
Messages
1,060
It gets kinda passed over in that article but the most glaring issue for me reading it is the claim that they are somehow "unreliable". Forget all other arguments for or against this technology, in order for it to exist in any reality it has to consistantly work. Otherwise it's completely ****ed from the get go and will go down in history as one of the biggest all time corporate **** ups. I thought they'd spent millions getting this right? The technology needs to be bullet proof when it comes to doing the job or it's already over before it's begun.
Anybody heard about unreliability issues with these? Or can confirm if that's the case?
 

Darkness

Member
Messages
2,252
Mine works fine. I am one of those weird people that read instructions though. To be fair, the thing is not super intuitive to use, especially the alternate tuning modes. Per the manual, I changed it to be more accurate at the cost of speed. Doesn't seem like it really takes any longer for it to do it's thing either.

I also happen to dig the adjustable brass nut and wider fingerboard. I'm not really a note bender though, as I prefer linear playing and my ears are really sensitive to the pitch variations that come with most players who use lots of bends, so the wider board really doesn't do much for me except feel more comfortable in my largish mitts.
 

Ron Kirn

Member
Messages
7,249
Expecting musicians to read a manual before tuning a guitar is pretty wacky.
My thoughts exactly...

I see the innovation much like the Tremolo when it was introduced.... as time passes and the thing seeps into the fabric of the world of guitars.... some will have 'em, and love 'em, some will say, "Oh hmmm" and some will hate 'em with a fury... but they will be here to stay..

Ron Kirn
 

PW214

Member
Messages
1,551
really..."acoustics are next"...unbelievable.

Technology has it's place and it's not on the back of my headstock. What an idiotic stance to take...(especially as poorly as these work...in general...maybe wait until technology can actually do what it says before inflicting it upon every single guitar...how depressing)
 

Darkness

Member
Messages
2,252
Expecting musicians to read a manual before tuning a guitar is pretty wacky.
You don't have to read anything to tune the guitar. The tuning keys work just fine manually. In fact, I think the ratio is like 1:40, which is far more precise than standard keys. You'd only need to read the manual to use the system for alternate tunings. Please tell me you've never read manuals for any of your gear. If you just use old amps, which I love too, that may be the case, but to get the most out of lots of modern musical equipment you need to read a bit about how to go about it.

For the record, I'm not a prophet of the G-force or anything like that. My point is that it is not inherently flawed from the get go, as so many are yelling about. I actually prefer manually tuning my axes myself. Heck, I have driven manual cars for 25 plus years now because I like to have control over when my ride shifts up or down. I know lots of people who used to drive stick, but can't stand using them after going automatic. I think Gibson should offer the system as a choice to players.

Also, I'm not a Gibson guy either. I just picked up a wine red studio because I wanted to try something in different scale length from strats, and all the used studios I saw were beat to hell and had high prices for what they are, so I jumped on a deal for a 2015 model. Mine sounds great acoustically and has fantastic playability. The pups are just okay to me and I'll change them at a later date, but all in all, I am really liking the guitar much more than I thought I would.
 

PW214

Member
Messages
1,551
My friend has one (the one e-tune, pre-branded Gforce). Trying to tune that by hand...with the mechanism off, the thing just crunches and sounds like it's being destroyed. With it on (having read the instructions) you strum it, it tunes two or three strings. Then you strum it again, it un-tunes a string that is "in tune" and tunes a couple of others, strum it again and it tunes 4 or so strings. And on and on and on. The G-force ones do the same thing. This isn't for alternative tuning. Just straight tuning. It takes less than 30 seconds with a snark in a loud store to tune and test. It can take minutes to get the Gforce tuned. Even then, they don't hold tune as well as the locking tuners, IMO. I cannot stand that thing. It needs a lot of work before it should have ever been mainstream production.
 

Darkness

Member
Messages
2,252
My friend has one (the one e-tune, pre-branded Gforce). Trying to tune that by hand...with the mechanism off, the thing just crunches and sounds like it's being destroyed. With it on (having read the instructions) you strum it, it tunes two or three strings. Then you strum it again, it un-tunes a string that is "in tune" and tunes a couple of others, strum it again and it tunes 4 or so strings. And on and on and on. The G-force ones do the same thing. This isn't for alternative tuning. Just straight tuning. It takes less than 30 seconds with a snark in a loud store to tune and test. It can take minutes to get the Gforce tuned. Even then, they don't hold tune as well as the locking tuners, IMO. I cannot stand that thing. It needs a lot of work before it should have ever been mainstream production.
Mine must be a fluke then. It works exactly as advertised, with none of the problems your friends version has. I can tune my axes quickly myself, and I'd say the current version (G-force) can do it nearly as fast as me. You strum all of the strings once or twice, then one or two individual strings, and BAM, it's in tune. Kinda like manual tuning, eh? I haven't used or seen the previous version in person, but what you describe is nothing like the current version.

Do you have any experience with the current version of the system or are you basing your info off of your friends system? Also, has he/she calibrated his/hers ever? The manual says you MUST do that if you change string brands or gauges. I'm assuming most people just slap higher, or lower, gauge strings on it and wonder why it doesn't work right. I've also read about people stripping out the tuners by trying to manually use them when the system if on. Again, this is all in the manual. Knowledge is power.
 
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DCross

Acoustic Jazz & Electric Folk
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,847
I've tried them a couple of times in stores and they didn't work very well.

The only thing I will say is that Henry won't be in charge forever. Think of the sales boom when they finally pull them off!

(I can dream, right?)
 

Darkness

Member
Messages
2,252
I've tried them a couple of times in stores and they didn't work very well.

The only thing I will say is that Henry won't be in charge forever. Think of the sales boom when they finally pull them off!

(I can dream, right?)
I wonder what the chances are that some of the many players before you might have damaged or inadvertently reset the system and didn't recalibrate it? Also, it's possible they may have changed the string gauge/brand and not recalibrated the unit. It could also just be that these things are pieces of crap. Mine just seems to work fine.
 

PW214

Member
Messages
1,551
Mine must be a fluke then. It works exactly as advertised, with none of the problems your friends version has. I can tune my axes quickly myself, and I'd say the current version (G-force) can do it nearly as fast as me. You strum all of the strings once or twice, then one or two individual strings, and BAM, it's in tune. Kinda like manual tuning, eh? I haven't used or seen the previous version in person, but what you describe is nothing like the current version.

Do you have any experience with the current version of the system or are you basing your info off of your "friends" system? Also, has he/she calibrated his/hers ever? The manual says you MUST do that if you change string brands or gauges. I'm assuming most people just slap higher, or lower, gauge strings on it and wonder why it doesn't work right. I've also read about people stripping out the tuners by trying to manually use them when the system if on. Again, this is all in the manual. Knowledge is power.
My only experience with the current system (which I've read is just a renamed, no changes, e-tune) is at the store. My friend (not sure why you put that in quotes) hasn't changed the strings. In fact she doesn't play the guitar much. Which is a shame. I've suggested removing the tuner altogether. And we both read the manual.

I was in the market for a Gibson for myself, recently. I played them extensively, trying to find one I liked. That included many of the new models. I ended up buying a 2005 standard lp faded instead. I didn't like many things that they are doing with the new ones (the thick varnish, the composite fingerboard and the issues with having to change out the quick connect system if you want to make changes...a tech friend said they've been swapping out innards since people started buying these...the brass nut...) too many things to make me spend the money on what, again IMO, are bad design decisions. I'm ambivalent re: the neck width.

If people enjoy these things, then they should buy. It's just frustrating for those of us who don't and might want a GLP. On the other hand, there's always the used market...at least that will be active...
 
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Darkness

Member
Messages
2,252
My only experience with the current system (which I've read is just a renamed, no changes, e-tune) is at the store. My friend (not sure why you put that in quotes) hasn't changed the strings. In fact she doesn't play the guitar much. Which is a shame. I've suggested removing the tuner altogether. And we both read the manual.

I was in the market for a Gibson for myself, recently. I played them extensively, trying to find one I liked. That included many of the 2014/2015 models. I ended up buying a 2005 standard lp faded instead. I didn't like many things that they are doing with the new ones (the thick varnish, the composite fingerboard and the issues with having to change out the quick connect system if you want to make changes...a tech friend said they've been swapping out innards since people started buying these...the brass nut...) too many things to make me spend the money on what, again IMO, are bad design decisions. I'm ambivalent re: the neck width.

If people enjoy these things, then they should buy. It's just frustrating for those of us who don't and might want a GLP. On the other hand, there's always the used market...at least that will be active...
I hear where you are coming from. Didn't mean to put friend in quotes, just not paying attention there while typing on phone.

I don't know if the tuning system is just rebranded or improved, which they claim it to be, as it's got more banks for preset tunings and is supposedly faster and more accurate than the previous iteration, just that I don't hate it and it works, as of now, for me. It is more accurate than my Snark SN-8, per my Peterson strobe tuner. And I love the ease of use of the Snark too.

If I were a diehard Gibson guy, I'm sure I'd be turned off too. I just wanted something else besides a strat scale length guitar, and I like technology, which isn't always a good thing, I know. Besides, I can pull the thing off in the future if I want, right?

The brass nut is also cool to me. I haven't figured out why people hate those too. Did gibbys ever come with brass nuts in the past?
Regardless, I'm glad you got the axe you wanted. And I do hope Gibson sees the light on making these changes as options for players. For now, I'm digging mine the way it is. Let's hope that continues.
 

PW214

Member
Messages
1,551
The brass nut is also cool to me. I haven't figured out why people hate those too. Did gibbys ever come with brass nuts in the past?
Regardless, I'm glad you got the axe you wanted. And I do hope Gibson sees the light on making these changes as options for players. For now, I'm digging mine the way it is. Let's hope that continues.
I like the idea of a zero fret nut. For myself, I just don't like brass (I'm big on the graphite nuts...really like those). Some people don't like the brass because of bad experiences in the late 70's (I think...may have been early 80's). Problems with strings (fraying, hangups etc) and some claimed it affected the tone. For me it's totally cosmetic...I just don't like it. lol
And I am happy with my guitar. And I'm glad you are with yours. I am only posting here because I'm an advocate for having a choice...if you don't want the changes or just want some of them (like the new neck width or whatever) as a customer, you are out of luck.

That quick connect for the pickups is frustrating for those who do tend to change out their pickups. Now they have to put in another system (if I understand that correctly)...I do tend to change my pickups if I haven't had the guitar built from the ground up. So yeah...there's just things that are difficult. Lots of people really love the traditional LP body. Gibson sues everyone who makes anything even comparable. It limits the options. That's the biggest rub...(for me anyway).
 

conanb

Member
Messages
1,060
My friend has one (the one e-tune, pre-branded Gforce). Trying to tune that by hand...with the mechanism off, the thing just crunches and sounds like it's being destroyed. With it on (having read the instructions) you strum it, it tunes two or three strings. Then you strum it again, it un-tunes a string that is "in tune" and tunes a couple of others, strum it again and it tunes 4 or so strings. And on and on and on. The G-force ones do the same thing. This isn't for alternative tuning. Just straight tuning. It takes less than 30 seconds with a snark in a loud store to tune and test. It can take minutes to get the Gforce tuned. Even then, they don't hold tune as well as the locking tuners, IMO. I cannot stand that thing. It needs a lot of work before it should have ever been mainstream production.
Amazing. This thing is gonna go down like the hindenberg. The very least I expected was that they would work 99.9% of the time.
 

Darkness

Member
Messages
2,252
Amazing. This thing is gonna go down like the hindenberg. The very least I expected was that they would work 99.9% of the time.
Did you read the entire thread? There are some important facts you may be missing. Just saying.

First, read the quick start guide online. Then go grab a new LP right out of the box before it's been fingered by a horde of hack players at your local store, and see if it works or not. You might be surprised at how well it works. Or it might catch fire. Either way, get some firsthand experience with the current version before making prophetic statements about it. Lol.
 
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jbcohen92

Member
Messages
184
I was at Guitar Center the other day and played a 2015 Les Paul Junior. It took me asking for the manual and the help of a friend who works there all to no avail. He told me that they are having some difficulty selling the models because of the tuners. Yet, I have another buddy that has a 2015 and loves it. What I take from all of this -- and I am an optimist -- is that, predominantly, the G-Force tuners have significant problems; but, some of them actually function appropriately. Let's hope that Gibson can figure out what is the problem and adjust it for the 2016 models.
 

Darkness

Member
Messages
2,252
I guess Henry got the word consumer mixed up with beta-tester.

Like I said earlier, if I was a gibby player, I'm sure I'd be in the lynch mob too.

I sure hope mine keeps working. It's a fun little gizmo, but that's because it's doing what they said it would, for now at least. I won't hesitate to ditch it for some aftermarket tuners if it starts to be a hassle.
 

jbcohen92

Member
Messages
184
I guess Henry got the word consumer mixed up with beta-tester.

Like I said earlier, if I was a gibby player, I'm sure I'd be in the lynch mob too.

I sure hope mine keeps working. It's a fun little gizmo, but that's because it's doing what they said it would, for now at least. I won't hesitate to ditch it for some aftermarket tuners if it starts to be a hassle.
I think you made a fair point, though. I almost wonder are the ones at GC, Sam Ash, etc. messed up because people mess with them all day? If that is the case, though, I think that is incredibly problematic. Most people try out guitars at these stores so, even if the tuners are only messing up because a 12 year old with a Cannibal Corpse shirt messes the calibration up, the normal customers won't get the real experience. Gibson has a lot of work to do before these become even somewhat accepted in the eyes of most guitar players.
 




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