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Source Audio C4 Modular Synth Pedal

rsmith601

Vendor
Messages
6,233
EDIT: The title of this thread has changed a few times as we went from:
1) Seeking input on envelope filters
2) Creating master synth architecture and seeking input
3) Creating an octave pedal and an envelope pedal with the same underlying synth program.
4) Added the Vendor tag
Feb 2019:
5) We are now doing 2 pedals: Spectrum (envelope filter) and C4 Synth (modular synth in a small pedal)
July 2019 Edit: The C4 is now released. The Spectrum comes out next month.


Yes, one day we are going to be doing more of these. No firm plans yet, but we were debating some things at lunch today, so I thought I would check in the REAL experts.

1) How valuable are those indicator lights that give a sense of the peak level of the incoming signal?
2) How valuable is an LFO with various waveshapes? We have had these things on many filter product before, but we always wonder if anyone actually uses them for more than just curiosity.
 
Last edited:

Mr2D

Member
Messages
1,813
Sample and hold is a must for me. I’m really loving it on my Stingray.

Straight LFO’s with filters are less interesting, though the phasers on the Stingray are great - which wouldn’t work so well without them. The ability to mix up the envelope types is really useful too.
 

59Bassman

Plank Cranker
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
2,851
At least in my experience, the indicator light does give an indication whether you are riding the sweep with a max-triggered signal or using a bit more of the dynamic range.

Waveforms can be interesting too, but I'm far more addicted to the vocal quality of the Pigtronix EP-2 than any of the other filters I have tried with more control over the ramp rate, etc.
 

chirills

Member
Messages
417
Yes, one day we are going to be doing more of these. No firm plans yet, but we were debating some things at lunch today, so I thought I would check in the REAL experts.

1) How valuable are those indicator lights that give a sense of the peak level of the incoming signal?
2) How valuable is an LFO with various waveshapes? We have had these things on many filter product before, but we always wonder if anyone actually uses them for more than just curiosity.
I'm a big box qtron guy and I like the overload indicator light. I had another with a light that flashed all the time when played, meh... Bright lights of any kind are terrible imo.
 
Messages
1,064
2) How valuable is an LFO with various waveshapes? We have had these things on many filter product before, but we always wonder if anyone actually uses them for more than just curiosity.
TL;DR: Very valuable to me.

I'm definitely not an expert but, oddly enough, I've been looking at filter pedals recently. Turns out that there are very few filter pedals with LFOs in the market, as far as I found out. Most of them are envelope filters (and I don't like those).
For any pedal with LFOs, I would want it to have as much waveshapes as possible. That's where the fun is, in my opinion.
There is one problem with the sharper shapes, though. Apart from sine or triangle, it becomes an issue to keep the peaks of the LFO on the beat in a song, and even tap tempo alone does not help. If there were tap tempo and the cyle were to reset with attack, that would probably solve it. I like ramp up, ramp down, square and random (sample and hold) shapes a lot and use them a lot when I'm playing alone. I'd want to incorporate those into my band stuff but I can't due to the tempo issue.
Maybe this is more than what you're asking for but I couldn't stop when I saw the chance.
 

Gibs210

Member
Messages
8,266
1) I’d say an LED that shows the LFO rate/Envelope travel, would be more useful than an input indicator.

2)envelopes for sure, sine wave makes sense, not so sure about triangle and square, gotta,gotta,gotta,gotta have manual mode for expression pedal use.
 

MartyReasoner

Member
Messages
396
Yes, one day we are going to be doing more of these. No firm plans yet, but we were debating some things at lunch today, so I thought I would check in the REAL experts.

1) How valuable are those indicator lights that give a sense of the peak level of the incoming signal?
2) How valuable is an LFO with various waveshapes? We have had these things on many filter product before, but we always wonder if anyone actually uses them for more than just curiosity.
Nice. Looking forward too this product one day. 1. Lights are unimportant to me. 2. My suggestion is to copy the mod source settings from the gemini. Its a continuum of env- sine square env+. Include in app "interstellar sequencer" type algorithms. This should satisfy sample and hold fans
 

MartyReasoner

Member
Messages
396
1) I’d say an LED that shows the LFO rate/Envelope travel, would be more useful than an input indicator.

2)envelopes for sure, sine wave makes sense, not so sure about triangle and square, gotta,gotta,gotta,gotta have manual mode for expression pedal use.
Expression pedal wah replacement mode of some sort is super essential.
 

FbIsNotE

Member
Messages
3,823
Yes, one day we are going to be doing more of these. No firm plans yet, but we were debating some things at lunch today, so I thought I would check in the REAL experts.

1) How valuable are those indicator lights that give a sense of the peak level of the incoming signal?
2) How valuable is an LFO with various waveshapes? We have had these things on many filter product before, but we always wonder if anyone actually uses them for more than just curiosity.
1) Peak level lights are useful to me, but I can do without... as long as there is good headroom which SA has been good about. NO RHYTHMIC / PULSING LIGHTS THOUGH! I often set my filter sweep out of time with the tune and blinking lights out of time are bad.

2) Various LFO waveshapes are why the StingRay is my only filter pedal!! = Very valuable. Second only to Manual control via Expression = Top Value.
 

shoepedals

Vendor
Messages
3,800
I am definitely in the camp of having multiple LFO shapes if doing an LFO filter. I think there's probably room for improvement when it comes to the typical LFO shapes available, though, to be honest.

Often you have:
Sine
Triangle
Square

Also pretty common are:
Sawtooth
Ramp

Less common:
Sample and Hold
Sequenced Steps
Pulse
Asymmetrical/Variable LFO shapes with duty cycle controls

I think some of these are more useful than others (and some are sort of redundant or boring), but some also could be improved using digital LFOs, in my opinion.

For example, a hard square or pulse (and sometimes sample and hold or stepped filter) can be too harsh to be usable and creates a nasty popping sound in some analog pedals. However, it would be great to have a slightly "rounded" version of these waveforms that incorporates enough ramp up time to get rid of clickiness but give a nice choppy sound.

Of these, I would find most interesting and useful:
1. Sequenced Steps (with ascending or deacending patterns)
2. Sample and Hold
3. Square

Pulse...not so useful.

I'd also like to see a waveform that is like a phase 90. Phase 90s produce a kind of "sharkfin" triangle shape that is a bit curved on the way up and down. This is a very pleasant shape.

Triangle and Sine are both nice to have, but a bit redundant I'd rank them as:
1. Sharkfin
2. Triangle
3. Sine

For a filter, I also think Ramp and Sawtooth are equally useful and necessary. These both classic synth filter effects.

As other have said, envelope is also important for a Filter pedal. I think where a lot of Filter pedals fall flat is separating envelope from lfo effects so that you get one or the other. In classic synths, you can almost always do both at once. And have the envelope control various things, such as resonance, depth of modulation, speed of modulation, cutoff frequency, etc.

It would be great to have something that can really do those effects properly outside of running a guitar into an actual synth with complicated cv gate generation/routing.
 

chankgeez

Member
Messages
9,665
I am definitely in the camp of having multiple LFO shapes if doing an LFO filter. I think there's probably room for improvement when it comes to the typical LFO shapes available, though, to be honest.

Often you have:
Sine
Triangle
Square

Also pretty common are:
Sawtooth
Ramp

Less common:
Sample and Hold
Sequenced Steps
Pulse
Asymmetrical/Variable LFO shapes with duty cycle controls

I think some of these are more useful than others (and some are sort of redundant or boring), but some also could be improved using digital LFOs, in my opinion.

For example, a hard square or pulse (and sometimes sample and hold or stepped filter) can be too harsh to be usable and creates a nasty popping sound in some analog pedals. However, it would be great to have a slightly "rounded" version of these waveforms that incorporates enough ramp up time to get rid of clickiness but give a nice choppy sound.

Of these, I would find most interesting and useful:
1. Sequenced Steps (with ascending or deacending patterns)
2. Sample and Hold
3. Square

Pulse...not so useful.

I'd also like to see a waveform that is like a phase 90. Phase 90s produce a kind of "sharkfin" triangle shape that is a bit curved on the way up and down. This is a very pleasant shape.

Triangle and Sine are both nice to have, but a bit redundant I'd rank them as:
1. Sharkfin
2. Triangle
3. Sine

For a filter, I also think Ramp and Sawtooth are equally useful and necessary. These both classic synth filter effects.

As other have said, envelope is also important for a Filter pedal. I think where a lot of Filter pedals fall flat is separating envelope from lfo effects so that you get one or the other. In classic synths, you can almost always do both at once. And have the envelope control various things, such as resonance, depth of modulation, speed of modulation, cutoff frequency, etc.

It would be great to have something that can really do those effects properly outside of running a guitar into an actual synth with complicated cv gate generation/routing.
Why don't you tell us what you REALLY think? :D
 

LSMFT6

We brake for nobody
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
1,770
Whatever SA comes up with, it’s more than likely going on my board, so it doesn’t matter what I say here in regards to their next filter pedal.

It was the original BEF pedal that got me started with SA. Loved it, graduated to the Pro version. Awesome, and then the Manta came out. Also awesome and small to boot. Then the Aftershock came out and freed up a ton of space on my board, so I went back to the BEF Pro since it’s got more presets readily available. And now I’m sure whatever filter madness eventually spawns from this thread will replace the BEF Pro (Nemsis/Ventris chassis?) and the SA cycle will keep cycling.
 

cbm

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
6,867
A lot of good suggestions here, in addition to the excellent list from @V, I would also say that a side chain input for envelope sensing is pretty crucial for my use. Filters work really well on signals that have a high harmonic content, but such signals often don't have too much of an envelope left to detect.

I would also like to see different filter types (LP,BP,HP) and slopes (at least 2 & 4 pole, but 1 pole and 3 pole are useful, as well as steeper slopes)
 

rsmith601

Vendor
Messages
6,233
A lot of good suggestions here, in addition to the excellent list from @V, I would also say that a side chain input for envelope sensing is pretty crucial for my use. Filters work really well on signals that have a high harmonic content, but such signals often don't have too much of an envelope left to detect.

I would also like to see different filter types (LP,BP,HP) and slopes (at least 2 & 4 pole, but 1 pole and 3 pole are useful, as well as steeper slopes)
Side chain for sure.
 

rsmith601

Vendor
Messages
6,233
I am definitely in the camp of having multiple LFO shapes if doing an LFO filter. I think there's probably room for improvement when it comes to the typical LFO shapes available, though, to be honest.

Often you have:
Sine
Triangle
Square

Also pretty common are:
Sawtooth
Ramp

Less common:
Sample and Hold
Sequenced Steps
Pulse
Asymmetrical/Variable LFO shapes with duty cycle controls

I think some of these are more useful than others (and some are sort of redundant or boring), but some also could be improved using digital LFOs, in my opinion.

For example, a hard square or pulse (and sometimes sample and hold or stepped filter) can be too harsh to be usable and creates a nasty popping sound in some analog pedals. However, it would be great to have a slightly "rounded" version of these waveforms that incorporates enough ramp up time to get rid of clickiness but give a nice choppy sound.

Of these, I would find most interesting and useful:
1. Sequenced Steps (with ascending or deacending patterns)
2. Sample and Hold
3. Square

Pulse...not so useful.

I'd also like to see a waveform that is like a phase 90. Phase 90s produce a kind of "sharkfin" triangle shape that is a bit curved on the way up and down. This is a very pleasant shape.

Triangle and Sine are both nice to have, but a bit redundant I'd rank them as:
1. Sharkfin
2. Triangle
3. Sine

For a filter, I also think Ramp and Sawtooth are equally useful and necessary. These both classic synth filter effects.

As other have said, envelope is also important for a Filter pedal. I think where a lot of Filter pedals fall flat is separating envelope from lfo effects so that you get one or the other. In classic synths, you can almost always do both at once. And have the envelope control various things, such as resonance, depth of modulation, speed of modulation, cutoff frequency, etc.

It would be great to have something that can really do those effects properly outside of running a guitar into an actual synth with complicated cv gate generation/routing.
I understand sample and holds as a circuit element. How are they used as effects? In the context of a filter pedal, that is.
 




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