Speaker to LOWER brightness and volume?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by bigredguy, Dec 21, 2009.

  1. bigredguy

    bigredguy Member

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    I have a tweed clone amp, 1x12", that I absolutely love!
    50 watts with five 12AX7 tubes and four EL84 matched output tubes

    It has a basic stock (no name-8ohm) speaker and although I can live with the sound,
    I thought it might benefit from a speaker upgrade. The cleans can get a bit bright and thin.

    Is there a speaker that I can add that will smooth out the cleans and also lower the perceived volume...this thing is loud! It also has cab outputs in 4,8,and 16 ohm varieties so I could just add a cab with another speaker to get my wishes?

    Thanks!
     
  2. jlagrassa

    jlagrassa Supporting Member

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    You might want to try some JJ ECC83S tubes, they can definitely help with bright amps! A Eminence Cannabis Rex is good at taming some top end as well but is a very efficient speaker!
     
  3. bigredguy

    bigredguy Member

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    do those swap for the 12ax7s or el84's?

    Do they lower the output?
     
  4. cmc2878

    cmc2878 Member

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    ECC83Ss are preamp tubes, it's an alternative name for 12ax7 tubes.
     
  5. bigredguy

    bigredguy Member

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    so the lower preamp tubes plus a hemp speaker might be what I am looking for?

    can the ECC83s be swapped straight out for the 12AX7's? (by a tech, not by me!)
     
  6. WesKuhnley

    WesKuhnley Member

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    How about a WGS ET65?
     
  7. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    I have a ceramic Blue Dog in my 5E3 clone and couldn't be happier. I've also tried it with a Celestion Blue, a Fender/Eminence Special Design and through a pair of JBL K120s.

    I really like the big bottom end of the Blue Dog and how the highs, while prominent, never seem too aggressive. I doubt many would ever call it 'thin'.

    I'd also consider a EV 12L or a Weber Michigan, but none of these speakers will do much to reduce the output as they are all relatively efficient.
     
  8. gill

    gill Member

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    believe me, you won't need tech to swap out the preamp ubes. It's very simple and would not require rebiasing live the Power tubes
     
  9. soundchaser59

    soundchaser59 Supporting Member

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    The Michigan I dont think is as efficient as some of the others. I have done side by side with Michigan and several others. Side by side with the EVM12L the Michigan had to be turned up louder to sound similar volume, and it is not brutally honest like the EV's are. The Michigan smooths out the highs quite a bit but without being dark. It is well balanced, and tighter sounding when new, it is my favorite all around speaker at the moment......but only because I cant afford all the Tone Tubbys I want!

    I had Blue Dogs and Silver Bells but I prefer the tighter sound of the heavyweight magnets and coils when it comes to Weber speakers.
     
  10. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

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    Without knowing the efficiency of the stock speaker its impossible to say what speaker will be lower efficiency. If the amp is fixed bias you can pull two tubes to bring it down to 25 watts. Yeah I know somebody will chime in "its only 3db difference" but it gets the amp cooking a bit sooner-especially an EL84 based amp. Bob
     
  11. Gtowngearhead

    Gtowngearhead Member

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    For the OP.. ECC83S are 12ax7s, so a swap would really get you no benefit other than hearing how different 12ax7 tubes sound... If you feel like shelling out a little extra, most TGPers will tell you that 5751s are your next option. I've used 12at7s, not a favorite TGP option, but they work just fine in my hot rod deville. Maybe a 12ay7 if you're really feeling like a drop in sound...
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2009
  12. bigredguy

    bigredguy Member

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    are we talking a drop in volume? Not quality, Right??I like the feel of the sound and it really is nice, just a little volume range drop would be nice....

    also, I am seeing mNy folks reccommend the hemp cone speakers or something cloning a blue....must research more!
     
  13. A440

    A440 Silver Supporting Member

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    +1 for the c Rex!

    It tames the highs and perceived volume is lowered.
     
  14. Gtowngearhead

    Gtowngearhead Member

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    Yes, I meant a volume drop. Low efficiency speakers will also help. You could also pull 1 pair of your power tubes....
     
  15. Gnarlly

    Gnarlly Member

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    Celestion G12-65 or a clone. Efficiency is about 96db/watt (fairly ineffecient compared to most of the Celestion line), and with nice mids and smoothed, rolled-off highs. Work great to counter bright Marshall amps. I'd guess it would sound great with a bright Tweed also.
     
  16. jchan

    jchan Member

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    +1, that is a great speaker and very smooth.
     
  17. Rattle&Hum

    Rattle&Hum Supporting Member

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    12AT7 and 12AU7 tubes are lower-gain tubes than 12AX7's. Its because of the lower gain there is a perceived drop in volume. If the 12AX7's are providing a certain drive or gain threshold you like, don't change them.

    Lower-gain tubes will really change the overall character of the amp for a couple reasons... 1) The preamp isn't working as hard. Much of the preamp clipping you like would be lost. 2) The signal coming from the preamp isn't driving the PI or power tubes as hard - thus less drive.

    Try a new speaker before you start experimenting with tubes. You'll find a more dramatic difference with the speakers (tubes are more subtle than speakers) and you won't want to make too many changes all at once.
     
  18. mad dog

    mad dog Silver Supporting Member

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    Greenback would do it. If you can find one, the old Jensen C12PS ceramic ... small magnet. That's my favorite lower efficiency ceramic.
     
  19. jchan

    jchan Member

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    Greenbacks are great, probably my favorite all time speaker. However, he said the amp is 50 watts, greenbacks are rated at 25 watts. Perhaps you can use a cabinet with 2 greenbacks or get a Scumback M75 rated at 65 watts.
     
  20. JoeB63

    JoeB63 Supporting Member

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    +1 on that. Low efficiency and not bright.
     

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