Speakers to go with a Fuchs

[pureoldsound]

I've done a search on the forum looking for some info. I read comments and reviews on how well these speakers pair up with D inspired amps...However there has not been a definitely (although there will never be as it all subjective) about which speakers pair best with this type of amp. So far I've read about:

Eminence Tonespotter, wizard
Celestion Alnico blues
Weber blue dog
Celestion G12H
Two Rock 65s
Celestion G12 65s

I was thinking about a pair of G12Hs but reading some post let me to believe that TR65s may be a tad smoother than the G12Hs?

Any comments?

 

[scottl]

Tag loves his G12s....

Fwiw, I would first try the Tonespotters, Wizards, or even an EVM if you are that kind of guy. I have a set of 1777 cone Celestion 1265 speakers I need to experiment with. Some love them. I am leaning Eminence based on my current trials.

I am not thrilled with the Tonker but others are.

The TR65 is similar to the Spotter (from what I hear) but Bill at Two Rock may have told me he prefers the Spotters now. (Correct me if I am worng)

Using Blues or some other "non-typical" speaker is a crapshoot.

The one absolute is that V30 speakers are typically a BAD match.

One other thing. Try and get a total 8 ohm loaded cab. The flexibility of being able to use either the 4 or 8 ohm tap for tonal purposes is great. I prefer 8 ohm cab into 4 ohm tap fwiw.

Scott

 

[pureoldsound]

Thanks Scott,

Based on what I've read the G12 65s maybe to nasal sounding. The G12H may be a bit harsh compared to the TR65s. I imagine that the Blues was probably a bad match. Maybe it is better suited with a EL84 amp, Vox type....

I read that G12Ms are not a good pair.

So that leaves the:

Eminence
TR65s

 

[Srini]

I'm using a Celestion Century with my Princeton ODS mod and loving it.

Srini

 

[Deaj]

I have an Emi Wizard in my ODS 50 1x12 combo and I really like it!

 

[drbob1]

It's a funny amp... Mine is a Bandmaster conversion. I've used it with EVM12s-good bass, EQ prevents any harshness, pretty loud. Original G12M-65 Celestions, not a great sound. 1950s Rola 10s (essentially a Jensen P10Q) in a closed back cab-not a lot of volume but a really sweet sound, JBL D120-good for clean but a little strident for distortion, although running an impedance mismatch with 1 D120 at 8 ohms sounded very "Marshall".

 

[pureoldsound]

I was thinking about using the speakers and cab of my Pro Reverb...I wonder how that would sound?

 

[aeolian]

Originally posted by scottl

I am not thrilled with the Tonker but others are.

Yeah, like this guy who got a black Baker before Scott and has a real Dumble.

When I got mine, the G12-65's went into boxes in the basement. But the Tonkers can be disconcertingly lively. Even RF can't make up his mind as his rig sounds noticably louder than before.

My brief experience with a Tonespotter is that it is sweeter and smoother. But I don't have Scott's latest top end tweaks in my ODS. Maybe the Tonkers give a similar effect. And in his amps, too much of a good thing is still too much.

 

[Fuchsaudio]

Find the one you like and stay with it ! LOL.

I found that there are two tonal schools: The EV school (SRO, 12-L, Black Shadow), which is very linear, accurate and balanced, and the "dark side" which is stuff like the Wizard, Celestion 65 and similar speakers that are more colored but do other things good.

I agree with Scott: I like the sound of a Vintage 30 hitting the bottom of a trash can, more than I like their sound with a D style amp. . I would also rather smoke hemp than play through a speaker made of it, (no matter who makes them) nor the vintage Alnico stuff. For low powered tweed stuff, by all means, but again, D-style amps are not usually depending on how a speaker distorts to acheive their tonality.

I played out recently and found I needed to get annoyingly loud to cut through the mix. I was using a 12-L in a 100-W ODS combo. The Wizards just seem to cut better through the mix, and don't seem to need to be as loud to do it. They do break up sooner (so it sounds) than a 12-L does. Maybe it was a weird room or something, but I felt like I had to work really hard to cut through and play louder than the room justified. More gig research.

BTW: I love Scott's tone's, but things are waaay-different on the bandstand than in a soundproof basement studio.

 

[Gotham City Blues]

I have an awesome Fuchs ODS 50 combo. (pre-SLX) But I was wondering, how do the Wizards differ from the Fat-S1 speaker. Though I really dig the wide bandwith of S-1, I find it to be a little too blaring/punchy on occasion.

Also, not to digress from the thread but I use a Tele with a Fralin SP 43 in the bridge. I think the output is around 10K. In order to get the preamp to start cooking, I end up being a little more louder than I'd like. Should I lower the input gain and raise the master volume/vice versa or go for a lower watt amp? My ES335 sings through the amp but actually has less output than the Tele. I'm trying to get a fat, smooth, singing, yet still Tele sound without volume excess. Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

 

[GuitarNorton]

Originally posted by Derek Q
I have an awesome Fuchs ODS 50 combo. (pre-SLX) But I was wondering, how do the Wizards differ from the Fat-S1 speaker. Though I really dig the wide bandwith of S-1, I find it to be a little too blaring/punchy on occasion.

Also, not to digress from the thread but I use a Tele with a Fralin SP 43 in the bridge. I think the output is around 10K. In order to get the preamp to start cooking, I end up being a little more louder than I'd like. Should I lower the input gain and raise the master volume/vice versa or go for a lower watt amp? My ES335 sings through the amp but actually has less output than the Tele. I'm trying to get a fat, smooth, singing, yet still Tele sound without volume excess. Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Get a Barber Launch pad and do this gain stageing as explained here http://tpngear.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=169&hl=gain+stageing

 

[OldSchool]

Some excellent advice here...........I am in the same boat as you. Andy has my amp as we speak and am also doing research on the best speaker/amp combination. What Andy says about the Low Powered Alinico Blues is right on...........They are cool for the tweed thing but not a good match for a D style amp. I kinda jumped onto the Celestion Blues Bandwagon to quick........I think I let Dave at Avatar talk me into his most expensive speaker option...........but thats my fault. Lots of good advice here and gonna sit back and watch this thread develop and make a better educated descision next time around...........

 

[OldSchool]

Originally posted by scottl
Tag loves his G12s....

Fwiw, I would first try the Tonespotters, Wizards, or even an EVM if you are that kind of guy. I have a set of 1777 cone Celestion 1265 speakers I need to experiment with. Some love them. I am leaning Eminence based on my current trials.

I am not thrilled with the Tonker but others are.

The TR65 is similar to the Spotter (from what I hear) but Bill at Two Rock may have told me he prefers the Spotters now. (Correct me if I am worng)

Using Blues or some other "non-typical" speaker is a crapshoot.

The one absolute is that V30 speakers are typically a BAD match.

One other thing. Try and get a total 8 ohm loaded cab. The flexibility of being able to use either the 4 or 8 ohm tap for tonal purposes is great. I prefer 8 ohm cab into 4 ohm tap fwiw.

Scott

That said..............Scott............Does it have to be a 12 inch speaker? Have you experimented with 10" speakers at all? What do you think of a 2x10 Cab with 2 Ragin Cajuns for a OD SLX 30 head?


Thanks........

 

[aeolian]

Originally posted by Fuchsaudio
I played out recently and found I needed to get annoyingly loud to cut through the mix. I was using a 12-L in a 100-W ODS combo. The Wizards just seem to cut better through the mix, and don't seem to need to be as loud to do it. They do break up sooner (so it sounds) than a 12-L does. Maybe it was a weird room or something, but I felt like I had to work really hard to cut through and play louder than the room justified. More gig research.

Andy, if you want to grab them by the collar without being blaringly loud, try a Tonker. The bottom holds together better than a Wizzard/Tonespotter/Gov/C65, but the top doesn't die like a EV/EV clone. Bruce Zinky explained to me once that the EV's heavy cone, adds a mechanical inductance of the huge magnet and voice coil, creating a log increase in series inductance with more input. At soft volumes it sounds really hi-fi, but the louder you go, the more it rolls off the top. I think this is why the SRO's sound sweeter. Different magnetic field and less rolloff.
The Tonker has a stiff but lighter cone and a decent size magnet and motor structure but not one that loads down the speaker.
I think that in a smaller band, something like a Tonespotter would sound sweeter and still sit in the middle. But if there's anything competing in the same region, the presence of the Tonker just seems to find a spot. My rig sounds a little raw at rehearsal or in the bedroom, but with the band, it touches folks. I always get good comments on the tone. It gets the bite in concert with great fundamentals that gets people attention while sounding like a sweet, singing tone.

 

[pureoldsound]

Has anyone tried using the cab of an old Fender loaded with Oxford's 12" or Jensens with a Fuchs?

 

[Tone Loco]

Originally posted by pureoldsound
Has anyone tried using the cab of an old Fender loaded with Oxford's 12" or Jensens with a Fuchs?

No, but someone asked about 10's and I have tried a Fuchs mod with an early 70s Ampeg 4x10 cab (CTS's I think) and it sounded great. I think its hard to go wrong with 4x10, easier to go wrong with 2x10

I now have the mod in a combo with a 10" legend and a 80 watt celestion 12" and I like that too. Although it weighs too much

 

[Fuchsaudio]

I have some samples I am reviewing now, and I like them. Scottl suggested I look into them.

As far as ten's go the Ramrods are very nice, the Rajin Cajin is also nice, but a little more mellow. I like the brighter tone of the Ramrods, some guys like the smoother tone of the Cajin's, but both are really nice performers in a 2 X 10 30 or 50 w ODS Combo or cabinet.

We're working on some 4 X 10 TDS combo's and I may try two of each in them...........hmmm.

 

[pureoldsound]

Since the tonespotter is 75W how does it compares to a Celestion G12 75?

 

[fullerplast]

I like the Tonespotters in a 2x12 open back (Andy's staggered 2x12 is one of the best I've heard and also compact & light). For a 1x12 I think the Wizard is a bit better. It seems to cut better and have better presence. I've tried the Tonker in other Fender amps and liked it, but I've yet to try it with the ODS. My gut feeling is that it may be a little bass heavy compared to the others.

I think Scott is right about the TR65 vs the Tonespotter. When I had my TR Custom Reverb I called Bill to order a TR65 and he told me to get a Tonespotter instead-it was closer to what he was originally looking for in the TR65.

Andy is right on the money regarding band use and home use. EQ settings and speakers that sound great at home will often not cut it in a band situation. A trio may not be a problem, but add anything else and things change. Even the tone stack bypass on the ODS surprised me. I hated the way it sounded at home (too bright/harsh) but it works great on stage.

 

[pureoldsound]

So the tonespotter will not sound right at low volumes but good at high Vol?