Spring Reverb or Digital Reverb? Or none at all? Need some guidence...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by tinkercity, Feb 1, 2008.

  1. tinkercity

    tinkercity Supporting Member

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    So I've got my trust Fender DRRI with good NOS tubes and I've been noticing that I'm having a hard time hearing any clarity on very loud solo boost parts with the band. My spring verb is usually set to about 2-3 but I'm starting to think that it's gotta go. I a) don't want any crutches and b) just am not diggin' what's happening.

    So, my question for you all is...
    1. Do you use spring reverb
    2. Should I look towards a digital pedal for more clarity
    3. Should I just stop using it all together! :)

    My main thing is keeping tightness and clarity when the band gets loud and I get loud. I can't handle the mush anymore. Maybe it's just spring verb...

    Thanks in advance!
    Mike.
     
  2. Tonefish

    Tonefish Member

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    Have you played the same solos with the same band in the same place with the reverb off? I'd guess that would be the best way to decide if the reverb is your problem.
     
  3. tinkercity

    tinkercity Supporting Member

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    That is a very good point!:messedup I'll give that a go. My main concern is the loss of articulation with everything getting mushy/muddy especially when I'm using lot's of gain i.e. two stacked OD pedals. I do however like the snap of reverb with clean passages...
     
  4. KBN

    KBN Member

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    I've never been a fan of spring reverb. It is cool in surf music, but other than that, not my thing. I use an RV-5 set to either Hall, or Plate and use it sparingly for a bit of depth to my sound. I like it a lot for that. Not sure if that helps you much.
     
  5. tinkercity

    tinkercity Supporting Member

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    Thanks...looking into this. Anyone know of high quality reverb pedals? i.e. true byspass. All would be digital I suppose?
     
  6. abovethewave

    abovethewave Member

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    I picked up a Radical Argyle Reverberator from Dr Scientist. Its digi but as with any digi you will have a line level option to tailor the volume into your overall line signal. I'm sure there will be lots of votes for the Nova as well.

    Pick up a pedal and try it out. I was actually shocked when I explored digi reverbs. Very nice tones, very dynamic features.
     
  7. KBN

    KBN Member

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    Dr. Scientist RRR gets pretty good reviews. The TC nova reverb looks pretty damn sweet.
     
  8. KBN

    KBN Member

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    Beat me to both of them.
     
  9. Ray Gianelli

    Ray Gianelli Member

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    Mike, it may be that the Deluxe won't cut it at the levels you asking it to deliver.

    In answer to your original question, it's digital reverb for me. But I far prefer it in the effects loop.
     
  10. drawrein

    drawrein Member

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    I have an RV-5 I use with a Tweed Deluxe clone and a SFDR. Although the Boss pedal does well it's digital sound wears after a while and makes me appreciate the DR. (Unfortunately the Spring setting sound great until it starts to "sproing", I wonder if they programmed that in?). In a band situation with so much going on it may not matter much which 'verb you use. For me, I dont think I will get another amp w/o a spring reverb.

    D
     
  11. Norjef

    Norjef Member

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    You're probably pushing the amp to that glorious power tube compression + overdrive. This also compresses any reverb and can make them all splashy. As you crank the amp, try turning the reverb way down.
     
  12. tinkercity

    tinkercity Supporting Member

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    It's definitely the reverb as I'm normally sitting on 3-4 with my DRRI with full band. It's actually amazed me what I could do with so little watts. I'm sitting pretty in the 20 watt zone.
     
  13. tinkercity

    tinkercity Supporting Member

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    Just an afterthought, but I've always loved the way my reverbs sound in the studio. My engineer/producer always has me zero my spring reverb on the deluxe and uses a stereo delay, obviously being digital. I've never had any issues with clarity or articulation in the studio...Hmmm....
     
  14. billyguitar

    billyguitar Member

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    I don't think it's anything to do with the reverb. DR's get real mushy when they're cranked all the way. Then you're boosting that. Turn down the gain or get a bigger amp.
     
  15. teleamp

    teleamp Senior Member

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    I prefer delay over reverb to get the "snap".

    MikeY
     
  16. blackba

    blackba Supporting Member

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    Why not use an AB box and use the normal channel for solos. you can set it louder than the Vibrato channel and get a volume boost in your sound and have different pedals before or after the AB box. I built a couple of AB boxes, and they have been very useful so far.

    As for reverb pedals, I use a Line6 Verbzilla with my '67 bassman and it sounds great. Its not true bypass, but I generally leave it on all the time so I don't really care....
     
  17. edward

    edward Supporting Member

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    Much depends on how much texture your band has. A 3-piece with lots of open spaces between notes and , you'll more likely be fine. Add instruments, or more notes ;) , and reverb can mush your tone in short order. FWIW, I've personally found that reverb can muddy my sound pretty quickly when playing loud live in a band mix, especially in a really hard room (which is more typical than not). I agree with others, try the same set with your verb off, then bring it back up incrementally ...see what you like. If your tone improves when completely dry but you want some spaciousness, then you may want to go with a pedal reverb, or even better IMHO is a bit of delay.

    Edward
     
  18. EADGBE

    EADGBE Member

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    I don't like reverb myself. You may find you like digital delay better. And there's always the chance your tubes may be bad.
     
  19. PRNDL

    PRNDL Member

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    There have been several great suggestions, but the way to figure it out is to try several different combinations to see what's going on, and what can fix it.

    >> DR's get real mushy when they're cranked all the way.

    >> It's definitely the reverb as I'm normally sitting on 3-4 with my DRRI with full band.

    >> My main concern is the loss of articulation with everything getting mushy/muddy especially when I'm using lot's of gain i.e. two stacked OD pedals

    The two issues I see are:
    - Four distortions (OD1, OD2, preamp, power tube / speaker)
    - Power supply sag in the amp

    Loss of articulation is a common problem when using several distortion pedals at the same time. One solution is to use less distortion with each pedal, with the idea of diminishing return.

    It might also be that you're overloading the preamp section of the DR. In this case, it's a matter of adjusting the level, which also lowers your lead volume.

    At 3-4 a DR is fairly close to full power, but there should be enough left over the power supply to handle. It's hard to tell.

    The speaker is the last part of the equation. If you have a speaker with early breakup it might be distorting with the extra volume on lead.

    To avoid these problems, Marshall (for a while) used very high power amps that were almost HiFi in quality. They relied on preamp distortion and pedals.

    The Fender DR, however, is not that kind of amp. It's made to distort and get mushy, which is not to say that you can't get a great distortion, it takes more thought.
     
  20. tinkercity

    tinkercity Supporting Member

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    All great suggestions to all! Thanks for the help. I actually like that tube compression and sag and the amp holds up really quite well with the band. I'm using delay as well as reverb, so that could be the big issue. I'll be trying it without any verb or just a touch next show. Any you are very right about the gain stages. I tend to have too much gain on my OD2, I just need some time setting levels. I'm using a AM TS-9 808/Silver into an AC Booster. Thinking about switching out the TS-9 for something with less compression, more full range.

    I also am not too into the spring reverb sound. Been listening to a lot of clips of the Nova and Dr. Scientist pedals and they sound really nice. I like spring reverb for specific effect but am liking the digital sound, i.e. how it becomes a part of the tone and not just surrounding the notes (which is what in my head I'm not liking with the spring verb i.e. fast note flurries)...

    Lots of variables but I do tend to do this to myself! I'm a lot like a dog these days chasing my tail round and round! haha but it's the only way I've found to tailer my sound completely. I'm crazy but a lot of us are on this board! :crazy

    Much Love!
    M.
     

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