Squirrel comes back in spades in Helix 2.81 (Tweed Nrm)? LOL

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by Mark Al, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. Mark Al

    Mark Al Member

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    I was noodling around tonight with a patch built on the new Fullterton Nrm amp from Helix 2.8 update, then I noticed abundance of the familiar "Squirrel" sounds from this amp. I recorded the following, e.g. listen to the clip from 0:30 to 1:30:



    I need to go find/crank a 5e3 amp and record it in real world to see if the Squirrels are real...

    Update:
    1. Here is the exact patch that I used for the recording, as some folks asked, the gain has changed a bit in some part of the song, e.g. between 6.5 to 8.5 (solo is done via a different patch using Plexi Jump, by the way):
    https://line6.com/customtone/tone/4588299/
    2. To clarify, the "squirrel" I referred to happens in the decays of the notes, it becomes especially obvious in slow songs like this. It sort of sounds like static non-harmonic noise/distortion.

    Here are the amp/cab settings, Fullterton Nrm and 1x12 US Deluxe:
    https://ibb.co/f8ZmF2Y
    https://ibb.co/Ss5CssC
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
  2. Frank Ritchotte

    Frank Ritchotte Silver Supporting Member

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    Nice playing man.
    @mbenigni will need to do the analysis. I don’t hear em.
     
  3. Axe-Man

    Axe-Man Member

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    What are squirrels again? That crrrrrhh sound that sometimes occurs? If so, I hear that with tube amps too.
     
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  4. kyolic

    kyolic Member

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    Me neither.
     
  5. phil_m

    phil_m Supporting Member

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    All these posts do is confirm my belief that everyone means something different by this term... I don’t hear anything unusual. The guitar tone in that section of the recording you mentioned doesn’t sound any different to me than the other sections....

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. gtr37

    gtr37 Member

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    I hear a bit of a papery sound in the decay but
    If you turn up the master and gain on a fender style amp the lows will start to fold a bit
    I have definitely heard similar sounds in some Fenders and real like vox

    Reduce ripple hum bias and master. See if it it still there

    It almost sounds like combo tube rattle or vibration
     
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  7. -Empire

    -Empire Supporting Member

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    I definitely hear it in your recording. It's not present in the decay of the notes in demos of the real amp, even when it's being hit hard:




    However I did not notice them at all when I was building this preset and tracking for this video:

     
  8. schmokes15

    schmokes15 Member

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    If there are “squirrels” in that clip....guess I like squirrels.
     
  9. partytrain

    partytrain Supporting Member

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    Mattingly! Get rid of those sideburns! (My favorite episode)
     
  10. Billinder33

    Billinder33 Member

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    You mean that constant unnatural rattling distortion in the sustain? That's the Helix signature tone, so far as I can tell. Good luck dialing it out!!! Pretty much every Helix model does that too... it's why I'm giving Helix the boot and going back to Kemper.

    BTW, I love that tune you recorded... very nice!!
     
  11. phil_m

    phil_m Supporting Member

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    I really believe people convince themselves that they're hearing certain things sometimes... But play whatever makes you happy! But some of this reminds me of when I was going through vocal takes with my lead singer. She would focus in on these little things that none of us could hear a lot of times. Half of the time I was convinced there was nothing, and the other half it was minor. Sometimes the "fix" was simply moving the mouse and replaying the part without doing anything. :)
     
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  12. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Member

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    "I can't hear what he says he hears. So clearly (a) one of is crazy and (b) it's him".
     
  13. phil_m

    phil_m Supporting Member

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    I never said anyone was crazy... I never denied I was. :D
     
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  14. mbenigni

    mbenigni Member

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    Did someone say "in spades"? ;)

    [​IMG]

    Firstly and most importantly, I think the recording sounds great - both the playing and the tone. But yeah, I hear what you're talking about, and yeah, it's the same thing I've been on about since day 1. It's a difficult discussion to bring to the Tweed models specifically, because these are amps which I might expect to sound similar "in real life". My rebuttal is the same as ever: I hear exactly the same characteristic across too many amp models and settings. Even on this Tweed model, I feel like the "squirrels" are a little bit too consistent/ persistent as to how they present over the duration of any given note or chord.

    It is what it is. Most people are happy with the tones, and by now I take it that this is all "works as specified" territory. If it drives you crazy, move on. If you can tolerate it, then take the good with the bad.
     
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  15. mbenigni

    mbenigni Member

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    You're backtracking, man. People convincing themselves they're hearing things implies those things are not real. This definitely smacks of, "I'm right; you're wrong."

    In the "who's crazy/ not crazy" analysis, there's a world of difference between "minor" and "nothing".
     
  16. phil_m

    phil_m Supporting Member

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    What I'm saying is that is it that happens not because people are crazy but that it's simply how the human auditory/perception system works. I think if people try to focus in on a certain phenomenon there are bound to be false positives. It's like the peripheral vision test they have you do at the eye doctor's office. I always end up pushing the button too many times because I'm hyper-vigilant about making sure I don't miss anything.

    If people are convinced these sounds are here and they hear them yet other don't or can't, then it just kind of leads us into a standstill eventually. It either bugs people or it doesn't. I've seen it happen with a lot of gear over the years. Over on the effects forum, there are people who swear the Strymon pedals destroy their dry tone, and there are other people who say it doesn't... I kind of see this as the same sort of thing. I probably shouldn't have replied, but, what can I say, I can't help myself...
     
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  17. burningyen

    burningyen Member

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    I hear it, too. For example, 1:07-1:09, the 2nd-fret As on the G string, one of the quieter parts of the performance. To my ears it sounds like static that has no relation to the perceived loudness of the signal.
     
  18. mikah912

    mikah912 Member

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    A) Love the clip. Beautiful playing.
    B) Absolutely hear what you are referring to once I put on headphones.
    C) Would not have noticed if you hadn't pointed them out.
    D) Don't really care now that you have.

    I get why this drives some people crazy, but it seems part and parcel of an "edge of breakup" tone to me.
     
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  19. -Hawk-

    -Hawk- Member

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    I hear it and agree it’s very similar to static sound that hangs there in between notes. I have heard that at home too with certain presets I’ve built. No clue if it’s how the real amp would sound.
     
  20. Billy_B

    Billy_B Silver Supporting Member

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    I hear it. It's pretty much what I referred to often as smear. Analog amps have the same type of gritty? decay, but it's just different. I heard it with the Kemper and didn't find it so much sounding bad. Just 'off' enough to be distracting.
    According to Phil, I'm delusional.

    GREAT playing!
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
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